Episode 326: Embrace the Suck a Little Less: Purpose-Built Wildland Tools with Scott Reimann of Vallfirest

Episode notes

Wildland fires are bigger and faster than they were 20 years ago. Much of the gear on the line has not kept up. A broken shovel. A pack that does not fit. Standard issue equipment that looks 50 years old because it basically is…

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy.

Scott Reimann handles technical sales for Vallfirest , the Spanish manufacturer now working across North America with partners like Darley.

The company started when founder Javier, a summer hire on fire crews near Barcelona, decided firefighters deserved better and began inventing his own tools. 20 years later the line spans the Gorgui multi-tool, a backpack pump built around real body mechanics, inflatable ground tanks up to 18,000 gallons, and the Dronester remote control masticator.

The philosophy has not changed: hand the prototype to a crew, let them beat it into oblivion, and listen to everything they say.

Topics covered:

The Vallgorguina origin story and how Vallfirest got its name

Founder Javier's first inventions: the mini drip torch and the Gorgui tool

Solutions versus widgets in wildland equipment design

Prototyping with real crews and building from end user feedback

How the Gorgui multi-tool covers two thirds of hand crew line work

The stages of cutting fire line, from breaking ground to mineral soil

Backpack pump ergonomics and the dual action wand

Inflatable ground tanks from 800 to 18,000 gallons

Remote water supply for red flag days and helicopter operations

Drones, the Waterhog bucket, and RC equipment in the next three to five years

So take a listen to hear what he has to share.

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources.

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn

Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro: wildland gear that hasn't kept up
2. 1:00 The origins of Vallfirest
3. 3:14 How the brand evolved from a better tool
4. 5:23 Developing products with firefighters
5. 8:23 A purpose-built multi-tool for wildland crews
6. 11:44 How the tools are used on the line
7. 14:27 Other purpose-built wildland solutions
8. 24:33 Keeping up with what crews need now
9. 27:39 Industry partners on the same team
10. 30:14 Wrap-up: looking ahead

Questions answered in this episode

What is the Gorgui tool and how does it help wildland firefighters?

Scott Reimann describes the Gorgui as a multi-tool for line building that combines functions. It has surfaces for different tasks like digging, clearing, and raking. The tool can cover about two-thirds of what a normal hand crew needs because you rotate the tool to match the job, whether breaking ground, clearing sod, or getting down to mineral soil.

Hear it at 9:06

How does Vallfirest design products with firefighter input?

Scott Reimann says the company listens to feedback from end users, including retailers and firefighters. They let people beat up prototypes and download all the information afterward. Sometimes they start from scratch based on what users think a tool should be, or they take something that exists and enhance it, often simplifying over-complicated early designs.

Hear it at 6:30

What makes Vallfirest's backpack pump different from older designs?

Scott Reimann says the Backpack Pump Pro has wide padded shoulder and waist straps to reduce fatigue and keep water from sloshing. The wand has a pistol grip and pumps both directions, so you stay on target with less effort and use less water. It also has a high-grade seam-welded vinyl bag inside a Cordura pack that wears like a normal backpack.

Hear it at 15:38

What are Vallfirest's inflatable tanks and why are they useful?

Scott Reimann explains they are portable ground tanks made from stand-up paddleboard material that become rigid with just nine or ten PSI of air. Sizes range from 800 to 18,000 gallons. A 20,000 gallon tank fits in a case the size of a desk instead of requiring a semi-truck. They inflate quickly with a drill pump or leaf blower and are safer because helicopter buckets will not catch on them.

Hear it at 20:49

What does Scott Reimann see as the future of wildland firefighting technology?

He is excited about large airframe drones that can carry water, fly at night, and swarm, plus remote control ground equipment like masticators and sweepers. Scott Reimann says the cost is coming down and new policy around mitigation is converging to transform the industry in the next three to five years, maybe sooner.

Hear it at 31:11

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 326 transcript

Embrace the Suck a Little Less: Purpose-Built Wildland Tools with Scott Reimann of Vallfirest

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Scott Reimann

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Wildland firefighting has changed. Bigger, faster fires, longer deployments, but a lot of the gear hasn't really kept up. Vallfirest is trying to close that gap. They make the Gorgui tool that combines three functions into one, a backpack pump built around an actual body mechanics, and now inflatable tanks from remote water supply. They're based out of Europe, but now across the world and working deep in the North American market with partners like Darley to get this technology and these solutions in the hands of different first responders, and I'm grateful today to be alongside Scott Reimann, the technical sales with Vallfirest. And just to kind of start right with the origin, what were you and the founder seeing on the fire line that made you decide that, hey, the current equipment was missing the mark for the wildland firefighters, and we needed newer, innovative, more purpose-built solutions?

[0:53] Scott Reimann: Yeah, you're I guess lucky because the you found a guy old enough to go back to almost the beginning Of velvirus, by the way, that name is it's kind of made up, right? But it's the town Vallgorguina in Spain, which is kind of east of Barcelona on the backside of Montserrat Mixed with fire the American term. They thought it sounded cool and it's stuck and here we are still using it today basically 20 years later so going back to your question though 2009 is when I met Javier and he was pitching to the retailer that I worked for his mini drip torch and the Gorgui tool which is a multi-tool for line rubbing as we say really cool concept I was privy to that first version actually in each case and those really are the origin story of the company those two products that he didn't necessarily design everything on his own, but he invented it on his own. So Javier, going back to his start, was summer help for fire in that Barcelona region of Spain. And I think he was every bit as disgusted as a guy would be here in the States, getting the standard issue gear going, oh, what is this? It's like 50-year-old guff, right? Here's a shovel that's broken and decrepit. Here's a pack that doesn't fit or work for you. Same with the PPE. I think right away something probably clicked and he said, okay, I'm going to do better and we're going to keep doing better. Fortunately for him, he knew a lot of firefighters, right? So surveying them and have them use the tools and be willing to give feedback. And then of course by the net result of those efforts grow at least through his region at first really spread over time and what's cool is I think Europe is progressive maybe just a little bit more than we are we always think we're progressive but then what happens is it seems like tradition sort of gets in the way or the look feels different and it's it's harder for guys like I equate it to like high school right where nobody wants to look different I think we'll get over that I really do and it's gonna take brands like this to drive that wedge to get it started.

[3:14] Kevin Sofen: And as the brand has evolved and it kind of started out of, hey, this tool that I'm using isn't good enough. Again, it's this idea of there are these tools, but it's, and of course there are these solutions that are, or these pieces of equipment that are provided, tools and solutions for the job. But looking around the website and hearing about it, I do hear this word and see this word solutions a lot. and it's not just tools and widgets and SKUs that are being sold on the surface it is, but in your words, how do you define a solution versus just selling a widget?

[3:50] Scott Reimann: The words product and widgets, right, those are things that I think have always irked me to some extent because these are great things, some of these tools, and it helps you, I guess in my own words, like embrace the suck a little bit less. the wildland mantra. We're trying to make things that genuinely make life better for firefighters. Yes, we are wildland specific. We're not really crossing over outside of wildland and I think that's a good thing. When it comes to turning what might be an evolution of a tool into a solution, those kind of go hand in hand, right? The multi-tool is taking tools that existed before and combining them. You might be able to have two or three out of four people on your line have the same tool because just depending on which way you rotate it becomes the correct function for your place on the line digging in the dirt. With the little drip torch, we've got this great design that's lighter weight, more impact resistant because we went with a poly tank instead of the old aluminum, what we used to call a sig bottle. The wick is 360 degrees, so it's around the nozzle instead of having to aim for the wick to drip on it. just taken away, in a lot of cases, I think some of the user error, but then of course added back some ergos, bending the blades back towards the user at an angle that we imagined they'd be, they would be grubbing, right? Those are little things. They're subtle, but they make all the difference and they really are solutions. So we'll touch on the subject soon too, but that development process is really fed by the end users because it has to be, you know, we're, we're all gear folks, but very few of us are firefighters or firefighters any longer, but we still need to listen. And that's where it all starts.

[5:39] Kevin Sofen: And it seems like that's, I mean, it's one of the best ways to innovate and get anything done is truly talking with the users, not just standing in front of a whiteboard and making assumptions, but kudos to you and the team, but that philosophy of designing with firefighters. And you mentioned working hand in hand with firefighters at Barcelona to firefighters around the world, and then also kind of these different industry professionals. What does that collaboration look like when you're actually designing a product from scratch to updating it? You mentioned just even like the positioning of the wick and all these like little things that, again, I get inspiration from Apple in a lot of ways in terms of how they design and sometimes removing is some of the best design and its simplicity. So yeah, tell me more about kind of that design philosophy and the collaboration with your different stakeholders throughout the process.

[6:30] Scott Reimann: Sure. You know, a lot of our products, I think, sometimes start with like a me too mentality. We're gonna get something to market because we're missing this in our lineup. Okay, fine, but that's the starting point. One of the reasons that I came to work for this brand was because they actually listened or were willing to listen to my feedback as a retailer, customer service person, et cetera, trying to voice to all these different manufacturers, whether it was packs, clothing, gear, tools, pumps even, it was just falling on deaf ears. And I get back to the executive team in Spain and would voice some of these opinions and the next gen would have that feedback integrated into the next version of the tool. Drove us crazy because then the images and the web copy and everything had to change, it would drive you crazy as a retailer but at the same time you realize the good it did. So starting there with listening, right? And then being on site. Now, onsite in different countries can mean different things, right? You may not be allowed on the line here in the States, but you might have a department with a couple guys that are willing to provide feedback or pushing it on you, right? Then you've gotta take that opportunity and run with it. Let them beat up the prototype, right? Let them absolutely firefighter that thing into oblivion and then just download all of that information when you're done. That's really what happens. So we either take something from scratch and build based on what the user thinks the tool should be or gear or PPE, or we go the other route. We take something that exists and then we enhance. And the trend is something you mentioned. It's to like over-complicate things, I think, at first. And then you sort of unwind it, seems to be the way that it works from a developmental process.

[8:23] Kevin Sofen: So let's double-click into a specific product that, again, when I Google and did some research, the Gorgui tool, the multipurpose Gorgui tool is kind of talked about. There's case studies. There's, again, it's a very purpose-built tool. I mean, to me, it almost looks like this wildland firefighting Swiss army knife where it's replacing three of these common hand tools in wildland firefighting. And I'm curious how, a little bit in terms of how that came to life and sort of How has this become a tool that's really, this versatility is helping enhance wild and firefighting operations to make their tactics and operations better and more efficient?

[9:06] Scott Reimann: Yeah, the Gorgui is actually kinda cool that way because the ideas were coming out around that time. I would even say back in the late 90s, early 2000s, where people were starting to play with multi-surface tools. They were cutting the clouds and just trying to make things that work for them, which was really cool. But there weren't many manufacturers that had kind of figured that out yet. You get some legacy manufacturers that still make great stuff, but it's been around since, in some cases, the 1920s, 30s, et cetera. And I think what's really cool is coming up with a tool that, in our case, all four surfaces serve a very specific function that are really commonly used on the fire line. Okay, so we check box eight. Step two is, you know, napkin sketch. Give it to your friend with AutoCAD, which by the way, it was newish at the time. It's not like SolidWorks or some of the tools we have now. But Javier, in the Gorgui instance, right, he brought that to his friend Denny, who was an engineering student, I believe, and they put that thing on the computer and designed it and redesigned it. And then, you know, they went big and went and cast that aluminum head that the handle shaft is pressed into, riveted the tight alloy blades that he had, I think, friend laser cutting or water jetting, I don't know which at the time in that region, Barcelona, and started again playing with tools, being an inventor, letting people beat it up. And I know it went through a lot of early iterations, but what happened is eventually they hit the pencils down, the stop point, and started making them, and people were buying them. That tool in that iteration exists today, going back to around 2009, 2010. Now, we have other iterations of that tool, but we kept the heavy one because it's got this sweet spot covered. People who like to have the tool head do the digging for them and use it to their advantage, right? So modern iterations kind of actually stem from other tools, one of which is US, right? The McLeod. We have a Gorgui classic, which is called classic because it's modeled after the McLeod, uses a McLeod handle. So you can get one on an incident on a fire here in the States from and logistics, right? If you break a handle, you can replace it. But what's cool about that is, it's a more simple, elegant design. It's lighter weight. A lot of the guys here in the States like the speed. They like the lightweight, especially for grass fires. What we've done then is sort of branched out that particular tool into almost its own Gorgui line, which is kind of neat.

[11:44] Kevin Sofen: And part of me, I'm not a wildland firefighter. I've never been on the wildland as a firefighter. but could you paint a little bit of picture in terms of the, you mentioned even the first tool still being used because they like it, but the versatility of this tool and sort of how it's kind of enhances outcomes in the line. I mean, just if you could give like a mini example of, again, this is a tool that I go out and use, like how is it used? Why is it used? Any other kind of like a specific color commentary that you could provide about how it's being used in the field.

[12:18] Scott Reimann: Yeah, the Gorgui is kind of fun this way because it really covers like your first few stages Well, really almost all the stages digging fire line depending on your terrain right on a on a 20 person crew We'll use that for an example. You might have your first few people with a Pulaski you're using the pick end You're just trying to break ground, right? The next stage is gonna be more of a hole where you're you're taking more ground, but you're not really clearing yet, right? You're still sort of chewing the ground up swing by swing And you're all doing this at a pace that's comfortable for the team because you can't wear yourself out if you're going to be doing this all day in two hours, right? You have to be doing it at a pace that works. And the next stages are more clearing stages and getting down to mineral soil, making sure there's no organic material left so that the fire can't spread underground. Sometimes the line is an inch deep and super wide. it's two feet wide and just as deep, especially if you're on a hillside, right? Making a quote unquote cup trench. You still at times will need something like an axe on a fire. You'll still at times need a shovel, right? Those are tools that aren't going away, but really everything else in between is covered by this multi-tool because it's got the surfaces for it. That McLeod rake with the triangle tines is built into one side. The flat clearing blade that is your bulldozer, your McLeod head basically on the other, really help you at the end of the line clear all of that sod, small pieces of wood, pine duff if that's what it is, can be cleared with the big blade. That's really the process. And it's just a matter of how many people at each step are using what surface of the tool. A normal muck crew or hand crew or whatever, shock crew, for that matter, is going to have a lot of different tools beginning to end of the line. And that's a bit of a necessity. But, you know, the Gorgui can usually cover, I would say, two-thirds of that for most average hand crews.

[14:27] Kevin Sofen: And I'd like to continue to nerd out, if you could say, about some of these other specific solutions that are talked about. And the other ones that kind of caught my attention were the backpack pump, some of the tanks, and some of the skid units. But maybe to start with the backpack pump. I really am a big believer in just the word ergonomics. And if it doesn't fit and feel good on me as a consumer, I don't want it, I'm not gonna use it, whether it's some of the backpacks I use as I'm hiking, or especially I'm a new father and you see some of these products that are not well designed and hurt you as a parent as you're trying to tend for your kids. So you really look at those products that are designed well and you're like, wow, someone really thought about how this is going to be used truly in operations. So I'm curious, from the backpack pump of where, from the ergonomic perspective, where have you seen this make a measurable difference in terms of firefighter fatigue and effectiveness, as you mentioned during these really long, extensive shifts?

[15:32] Scott Reimann: Yeah, well, first of all, congrats on being a dad, because that's fantastic.

[15:36] Kevin Sofen: Thank you. That's my favorite title.

[15:38] Scott Reimann: Yeah, it should be. I think with the backpack pump, at least the pro series, which was kind of our first foray into it, we really listened again to the end user because there's so many problems with carrying water, especially, you know, five gallons worth of water. Nobody wants to be that person and the young people on the crew are always the ones carrying that level of water. But there are a lot of, I would say, low-hanging fruits design-wise in order to make such a thing better. Look at the old FSS pack. You've got a steam-welded vinyl bag and spindly little one-inch straps with clips on them. That pack rides on top of your line pack. By the way, we still mostly have to do that here in the States, but not everywhere. In other countries, you're able to wear our water pack, the Backpack Pump Pro. I'm going to refer to it as that. You're able to wear it's got MOLLE on the waist belt, so you can put your accessories on there. Places where they use a fire shelter, you can actually put that on the pack. You can add your drinking water bladder to the water pack. It's the main pack. Here, you're required to keep your line pack on, keep your fire filter on that device, and then the water bag goes over the top. So it's a little bit, I guess, less effective in ergonomics with its current design, but we still absolutely have the most, I would say, wearable package because we give you the big wide padded shoulder straps and waist strap that helps keep the water from sloshing side to side, right? We have a very high grade seam welded vinyl bag inside a Cordura pack which acts like a normal backpack. The handles on the top make it so that you can actually swing that big old weight of water and slap it on your back think Santa putting on his big pack right that's the image it creates but we've got more lash down points too so tools, fittings, other things for moving water right will fit in that pack. You can also pump both directions with our wand. The wand is a huge win. A little pistol grip, not everybody likes that, but once you start figuring out the different ergos of firing water with your backhand and keeping aim with the front hand, it really changes the way you think about water delivery. Yes, it delivers less water per pump, but it's pumping both directions. So you're staying on target, less fatigue, and really using less water because the water you do use is on target. So, we've come up with a design that I think is really cool. We're still honing it, by the way, but I think what you're going to see happen is that pack is going to be another one of these pencils down. Okay, stop. We've got a good product. If we want to design something different for different groups, think smoke jumpers, think anyone that does Heli-Tac really, they're not jumping with five gallons of water, but they might go with two and a half or three and it might fit real cute on top of their bag. So we got to think a little bit differently too about the North American market and that might back feed to the rest of the world design wise. So we've always got things in the works and we're always trying to think about Ergos but we're really getting inspiration I think right now from maybe not even current competition, maybe old designs that died just because they didn't have the marketing behind them or no one ever saw the idea. Some guy sewed his own pack and never had any intent on marketing it, but we found it in a shed and went, whoa, look at this is really cool. Those are the things that I think are coming to the top right now. And because people have learned, we take feedback seriously and filter it back out to not just the North American market, but the rest of the world. That becomes a really, I think, appealing, I would say case example of one of our products. It's our best seller. The five-gallon pack is our best seller, even though it's the single worst thing to wear as a wildland player. fire is all of that weight worth of water sloshing around. Nobody likes it, but again, we're just trying to embrace the suck a little less, I'll say that again.

[20:10] Kevin Sofen: Make it suck a little bit less. Yeah. I love that. And just speaking of water storage, I mean, the inflatable tanks is obviously a key part of all things firefighting operations, whether you're in the urban setting or WUI setting. But what about the inflatable tanks that Vallfirest is working in terms of how does this kind of factor into the calculus for water supply, for extended wildland campaigns, especially when some of these hard-sided tanks aren't as practical. Tell me a little bit about some of the inflatable tanks that are part of the equation with some of the solutions.

[20:49] Scott Reimann: Yeah, so this is one of those things that's a real solution, and I don't honestly know how we stumbled across it, we figured out how to make portable ground tanks out of stand-up paddleboard material and what's really cool about this design is it's very rigid and you don't need any more than nine or ten PSI worth of air to make it rigid almost like a car tire it's awesome so we've got you know say 800 gallons all the way up to like 18 let's see 18,000 US gallons per size and probably five sizes in between. What's really cool about this is when you get up to those big sizes, the 20,000 gallon ish tanks, you got to use either a semi-truck or a shipping container with the top cutoff or some crazy huge thing. Ours comes in a case about the size of this desk I'm sitting at. I know you can't see it, but that's all right. It gives you an idea of all of a sudden how much more operationally that can free up the trucks, the logistics, the transport to get that stuff there. And it's super easy to use. You can use a drill pump inflator, you can use a leaf blower inflator with a battery to air it up. You can use a 110 mattress pump if that's all you've got, but it's really quick and easy to inflate and it's safe. And by that, I mean, these larger heliwells especially the ones without a supporting frame they like to catch buckets and that's super dangerous for pilots right we've proven ours you can ram that thing drag the bucket over it's it's not going to catch and it's it's a much safer design and the little designs what's cool is you know two to four guys can carry the thing out and set it up extraordinarily fast there's no frame to put together and you don't have to worry about the frameless pumpkins. Again, you don't have to worry about stuff catching the top or you press on it and a bunch of water is gone. Well, that water was really precious. So operationally, it's a lot nicer device to use too. And I think the kicker is that, again, from a pilot's perspective, it's easy to hit. It's a big wide open container. We even put a dot in the middle, and I know that's kind of fun, but hitting that dot with the bucket just seems to be a pilot's best friend.

[23:16] Kevin Sofen: Well, I know this is a separate example to that, but I know one of the sneakiest, I found funniest innovations was with the urinals in the male bathrooms. Some janitor came up with the idea of putting that little bumblebee kind of at the lower half and it kind of was angling like you know if you aimed it here it just it created less of a mess for others so I mean sometimes you know having a little spot to aim at is both fun and strategic

[23:45] Scott Reimann: yeah exactly we do other fun stuff too you know we've gotten feedback there's a local crew here that uses one they set up in between some of the HOA's a big tank. It's probably 6600 gallons of water. They set it up and leave it up on red flag days. And if they need that water source to refill the trucks, they can go draft out of it when there's nowhere else to draft from. These people up in the mountains don't have pools and jacuzzis and that kind of thing. So to play home defense, bring the tanker truck out a few times and run that remote tank and leave it set up. It's been something that can freeze and thaw without issue. It's a really neat design that I never I guess I never thought I would consider it as one of the most innovative things we do, but it really is.

[24:33] Kevin Sofen: Well, one thing that I continue to be impressed by as I talk to you and study the company is that it's keeping up with the no, it's keeping up with the now, and frankly, I think most people, unless you're living under a rock, you know that wildland and firefighting, wildfires is an evolving challenge. I think it's easy to sit there to kind of look at the glass as half empty and we're all screwed and going to hell in a hand basket and kind of sit there. But nonetheless, we can't ignore that wildfires are more intense and have higher speed and there's conflagration issues and just it's becoming more of a challenge. So these nuances are creating challenges but with your design philosophy and kind of your, I guess I'm curious in both in your thoughts and kind of the state of the, and I know calling it the wildfire industry is sometimes looked down upon, but what's your take on kind of like the status of life within the wildland and wildland firefighters going on right now, and how does that dictate how you continue to be an operator in this space?

[25:43] Scott Reimann: Yeah, I think keeping a pulse on our quote unquote people is a big part of that. We're all fire and EMS people. Sometimes I think wildland was like the redheaded stepchild of the quote unquote industry, if you want to call it that's okay. But I think nowadays it's of course become more mainstream. And I think you're going to see a lot of policy emerge because of that. Also, I think you're going to see some good things, right? We're going to do more RX. We're going to do more mitigation work. These things are happening. What I think is cool is being at very least a fringe part of that, where we're offering things like, you know, remote control masticators and ways to burn larger swatches of land with the right burn plan in place, of course, and the right strategies. And a lot of the digital help, we have kind of partners at arm's length with too, you know, there's some really cool software emerging to help us figure out when you're not going to burn or when to get people out of harm's way or when to send in the drones, right? Because that's becoming a thing. So, you know, speaking to some of that, I really think that we are becoming probably known as a little bit more of a player just because of that forward-thinking mindset. It's a necessity because if we don't, think of yourself as a congressperson or a senator and you know nothing about wildland fires or you're out east and you just got hit with your first one and people are asking you about it, let's use Tennessee for an example, you really have to get back to the nuts and bolts of it and say why did we let the fuels load up so much or why didn't we know that this technology exists? And that's where we wave and go, yeah, we're right here because we're here to help. We really are, even if it's just to bench race ideas for what's next.

[27:39] Kevin Sofen: And I'm a big believer in that we're all on the same team here and there's a lot of different industry partners that are doing their best to support the first responders that are out on the front lines. And there is this unique partnership that Darley and Vallfirest, I would love to hear the founder say it in his native tongue. Yeah, to really hear it. But especially with companies like Darley and Vallfirest talk about, what's your take in terms of how Darley and Vallfirest are working together to work with the end users, system integrate, market, manufacturer, distribute, sell. How is that partnership in your eyes, and what's your take on how Darley continues to be a partner with everything that you're leading in North America and the world?

[28:32] Scott Reimann: Yeah, well, quite simply, and I'll start at the top, right? Vallfirest is the OEM, we're the manufacturer, Darley is the retailer, and that's fantastic because Darley's got a great audience already, you know? One of the better lists that we would ever be a part of. Right? And then, you know, the sales team's actually quite good. And I'll say this, there's situations where we overlap, we actually make some similar things because Darley does make some things in-house too. You skin units, for example, right? Just yesterday, I sent a guy to Darley because there was a skid that we didn't make in particular Out of our facility in Colorado that I'm pretty sure Darley makes there In the Midwest and I really was excited for him to pair him up because his old skid was a Darley skid I'm like, well, there you go. Here's your guy But that's the kind of collaboration that I think Manufacturers and retailers need is in a market where there's so much scarcity Look at trucks, for example, two to three years in some cases to get a truck. In a market with this kind of scarcity, we've got to help each other out. We've got to give the right referrals. And sometimes that means you send somebody to where you know they can get it fast. And that's something that I'm really proud of. And I'm also actually super impressed with the way Darley handles. those accounts, those leads, whatever you want to call them, right? Those of us that use CRMs and chase deals and bid on bids and write quotations all day long, that can be a tiresome job, but it's really rewarding a lot of times, even if you don't get the business to hook up that client with somebody you know who's gonna trade them well.

[30:25] Kevin Sofen: Right on, well, it's two great companies with great brands and reputations that are leading the way. I know Darley appreciates the partnership. So thank you for everything that you and the team do. And I think kind of to wrap us up here, this is sort of a two-part question. It's one, it's February, 2026. I'm over saying 2025. I was messing up a few times in the past few weeks. But what's your take in the next three to five years? And what are some of the biggest opportunities that you see for Vallfirest, and what should people kind of be looking at, and where do you see, what excites you about the next three to five years in terms of where you're at and where you continue to see the technology and innovation go?

[31:11] Scott Reimann: Yeah, well, personally I'm excited to see the adoption of tech that I think has been taking a little bit too long, especially stateside. And by that I mean we've got large airframe drones coming. No, Vallfirest isn't gonna make those, but other people are, and they're making them, you know, big enough to carry water, right? So, Vallfirest owns a company called Waterhog, which is a drop bucket technology, right? Think solenoid delivering water in smaller increments than just dropping it all at once. But these drones can be programmed to swarm, they can fly at night, they can obstacle avoid, like all the consumer market stuff, but think very large, 20-foot wingspan, whatever, right? This kind of technology is a total game changer. And then on the ground, you have some of the same things. You have the remote control units, RC masticators, sweepers, log skitters, all of these things that, you know, we're short on bodies in the wildland world. And some of that is because they weren't getting paid. But at the same time, we get this whole generation of gamers and good ones at that can fly these drones, hopefully somewhat maintain them, right? understanding the technology. And then on the ground-based, like the tracked vehicles, like our Dronester, that's the actual name of the RC Masticator, we were one of these people that a dozen years ago came out with this tool, nobody was doing it, no one understood why you would need such a thing. And now there's programs in places like CAL FIRE where they run this equipment, and we've got turnkey solutions. And that's where dealers like Darley, I think are gonna be able to help us push these concepts because even in places like the Midwest, even in places like Appalachia, these RCUs as they're called, are gonna be big and eventually somewhat automated too. And we all need to step back and take a breath and go, okay, these are useful tools on the fire line, how can we integrate this tech? And the cost is coming down too. So all of these things are converging at the same time with new policy, right? ergo mitigation, to sort of line up to be the perfect storm to just transform this industry. And when you say three to five years, I mean it could be shorter than that. It all depends on how quick certain sectors are.

[33:35] Kevin Sofen: At the speed of Moore's Law, and especially with the accelerating returns of all things, AI and software, you're just seeing stuff that took a year and now take six months, now take three months. So yeah, maybe I should have said, what about the next three to six months? That's really more of a realistic outlook these days. So the final question I got for you, Scott, this is maybe a little bit about the left field, but is there any quote or words of wisdom that you live by, whether it's the company or you, something that, you know, as you approach your daily life as a human or a professional, any words of wisdom or favorite quote that comes to mind?

[34:14] Scott Reimann: Yeah, actually there is. You know, I kind of sigh while I say it. This time of year, for us in the wildland fire industry, I'll go ahead and say it, right, is a very tough time of year. From February, really, until June, it is absolutely insane. There are gonna be backorders. There's gonna be broken gear and equipment, especially while all the summer hires are coming on and people are going through their caches and finding their broken stuff and going, oh my God, I can't outfit my people. I need gear right now. I need it yesterday, right? The thing I even tell gear people sometimes is, hey listen, we've had a heck of a week, right? I'm saying that as nicely as possible. The quote is the greatest bridge between despair and happiness is a good night's sleep. It's really as simple as that. You wake up, come in, realize you're in the fire world, and it's all good.

[35:10] Kevin Sofen: And a good night's sleep goes a long way. I've learned that being a new dad, so.

[35:14] Scott Reimann: Yeah, I bet.

[35:16] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, well Scott, it's been a pleasure. I hope to cross paths with you at, whether it's FDIC or some of these other technology shows that are coming up with a new future. Very grateful for the partnership that we continue to have between companies and look forward to continue to learn and collaborate and build alongside you and your team.

[35:33] Scott Reimann: Yeah, me too. I'm excited for a few reasons. One of them just being the fact that, you know, we were kind of slow to start with Darley, not really sure where we fit and I think vice versa, but now we're kind of killing it. So that's, that's a lot of fun and really appreciate the team there.

[35:51] Kevin Sofen: Let's keep killing it.

[35:53] Scott Reimann: You know it, thank you.

[35:54] Kevin Sofen: See you, Scott.