Episode 315: When Fire Protection Has No Rulebook with Alex Starkey

Episode notes

What happens when fire protection standards do not apply?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy.

Recorded live at the Institution of Fire Engineers (IFE) 2025 Conference alongside the AFAC, WAFA, and Australian Institute for Disaster Resilience Conference in Perth, Australia.

In this episode, Alex Starkey shares what it takes to protect environments that fall outside traditional fire codes. From tunnels to aircraft hangars, these are the risks where standard solutions do not apply and every design requires careful engineering.

Alex explains how water mist is gaining ground as a practical option in spaces with limited resources or environmental constraints. He also highlights emerging technologies like fiber optic heat detection and autonomous suppression systems that are changing how teams prevent and control fires.

Overall, this conversation is about stepping into complex challenges, continuing to learn, and sharing knowledge to move the industry forward.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share.

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources.

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro, live from Perth
2. 1:05 In town for the conferences
3. 1:36 What special hazards fire protection is
4. 2:18 Water mist as a tool in the toolbox
5. 3:59 Water mist in aircraft hangars and tunnels
6. 5:23 How Alex got into special hazards
7. 6:36 What LPG Fire Australia does
8. 8:09 Technologies to watch: fiber-optic heat cable, water mist, robotic cannons
9. 11:00 Words to live by

Questions answered in this episode

What is special hazards fire protection?

Alex Starkey explains it is anything that exists outside of the national construction code and the deemed to satisfy provisions, where Australian standards don't cover the potential risks. Engineers must do specific engineering for each application because standard coverage is lacking.

Hear it at 1:43

How is water mist being used in new applications?

Alex Starkey says water mist is replacing foam in areas where environmental concerns have arisen. Extended testing proved the technology can handle those fire loads. His team delivered the first water mist system in an Australian road tunnel and is in the process of delivering the first water mist system into an aircraft hangar.

Hear it at 2:46

What are the challenges when working on special hazards projects?

Space, resources, and infrastructure are big challenges. Alex Starkey says you must assess if there is enough water, enough space for the hardware, and evaluate each project on its own merit. Uptake on new technologies lags behind standards, so engineers need to work through fire testing reports and performance-based solution pathways.

Hear it at 4:26

What is fiber optic linear heat cable and how can it help?

Alex Starkey describes it as technology that can discern half a degree Celsius over a one meter stretch. When run beside conveyor rollers, it detects when a roller is heating up and approaching its maintenance cycle, giving the user a list of rollers to check before they fail and potentially cause a fire.

Hear it at 8:22

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 315 transcript

When Fire Protection Has No Rulebook with Alex Starkey

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Alex Starkey

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to our podcast mini-series, recorded live at the Institution of Fire Engineers 2025 Conference in Perth, Australia, alongside the AFAC, WAFA, and the Australian Institute for Disaster Resilience Conferences. With over 28 conversations with fire chiefs, engineers, researchers and innovators, we explored how the fire and emergency community is adapting into a rapidly changing world. From climate resilience and community-led adaption to the rise of new technologies like satellites, AI, and simple tools designed for the field to the importance of mental health, diversity, and global collaboration, these episodes highlight the shared challenges and inspiring solutions shaping the future of safety. Enjoy. While I'm a big believer in saying full names, my name's Kevin Francis Sofen, and it's wonderful to be alongside Alexander David Danger Neil Starkey.

[0:56] Alex Starkey: Nice to meet you Kevin.

[0:58] Kevin Sofen: Great to meet you Alexander. What brings you to Perth?

[1:01] Alex Starkey: So I've come over here to see AFAC. We had a little speech yesterday up on stage. We've got the little bit to do with the NFIA. Well I'm over here as well so we've got a fireball on Friday night so the wife will come along and get dressed up but yeah come over here get a little bit of work done visit AFAC.

[1:18] Kevin Sofen: A little bit of work can play is the best way to do it.

[1:20] Alex Starkey: You've got to combine them.

[1:21] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, that's brilliant. And so I've gotten to know you a little bit from afar and now kind of been able to talk to you a little bit, but Special Hazards Fire Protection seems to be a, I mean, it's no shortage of challenges, but there's a lot of different best practices and ways that we continue to address it. In your words, what is Special Hazards Fire Protection and why is it such a kind of a, why is it such a challenge?

[1:43] Alex Starkey: So Special Hazards Fire Protection, we're looking at anything that exists outside of the national construction code, so outside of the deemed to satisfy provisions, that's where we exist, that's where we work. So these challenges lie in the lack of standard coverage, so where the Australian standards don't cover the potential risks that we might be needing to protect, that's where special hazards lies and we need to do specific engineering for each of these applications.

[2:12] Kevin Sofen: So we can eat this now or later, we'll probably... We might wait. Yeah, we might wait. Thank you, Jason. So kind of within that, I mean, there's all these different, just like within fire service, we have our toolbox and we have different tools that we use to address these fires and whether that's a hose, whether it's an ax, whether it's sprinkler systems. But I also know misting is a continued key tool that can be used and offers different benefits than a traditional fire hose or a sprinkler system or foam. What role has misting played within as you're designing and implementing special hazards fire protection?

[2:46] Alex Starkey: an ever increasing role in actual facts. We're finding with increased testing and modified risks in the field. So the proliferation of lithium ion batteries, not to suggest that water mist will extinguish these, but certainly prevent propagation and control those fires, reducing the downtime and certainly mitigating a lot of the impact of a fire in those scenarios. We've seen water mist growing into areas that it never used to protect with the dramas that have come from an environmental point of view with foam solutions, for example, we've been able to implement water mist in lieu of those because of some extended and advanced testing that's been undertaken. So proving that technology can handle those fire loads and can handle that application is key to being able to implement that successfully. So on the back end of some fairly rigorous testing, we've been able to deliver the first road tunnel with a water mist system in Australia and in the process of delivering the first water mist system into an aircraft hangar, which is probably, both of these areas are primarily deluge combined with foam in a lot of instances. So stepping away from those technologies and using something like water mist has been effective and efficient.

[4:01] Kevin Sofen: So within the aircraft carrier scenario, how is water misting now playing a role? I mean, at what point was it like, hey, we should consider this as another tool to consider to address this growing, and evolving challenge that the aircraft carriers provide. How did that come to be? And has there been any sort of, I mean, I don't know if there's been a fire yet to prove it's been effective or not, but how is that kind of, how did it come to be and where are you at now with it?

[4:26] Alex Starkey: So the challenges that you face when you're looking at one of these risks or applications will be space is a big thing, resources and infrastructure. So do they have enough water? Is there enough space for the hardware? All of those pragmatic problems you might come onto a project and come across. So being able to assess each project on its own merit is probably where a lot of the growth has come, and then that can drive testing. So being able to have the right project team, the right client, the right end user, and the uptake on some of these new technologies isn't always as fast at an industry level as you might want, and it certainly lags a long way behind the Australian standards and documentation that would support the installation of some of these. So having engineers that are more than happy to go through their fire testing reports and go through performance-based solution pathways, that's been the kicker, that's been the drive.

[5:22] Kevin Sofen: How did you get into this field working in special hazards fire protection?

[5:27] Alex Starkey: That's a great question. I started in electrical dry fire designing and that led me into doing the electrical designs for some special hazards, gaseous suppression systems and water mist systems back in 20, 25 years ago. And I just thoroughly enjoyed them because they were something different every single time. The shopping centers were the same, the high-rises were the same, the residential towers were the same, and there's nothing wrong with doing fire protection in those areas, they need to be protected. What I found when I got into the special hazards was that every risk was a little bit different and it was the ones that no one else really wanted to do. They were a little bit standoffish on some of them because there was a fairly big cost implication or a risk if they were to press the wrong button in the wrong moment. Well, I thrived in that because I was either silly enough to not understand what could happen, which is not the case. I knew the risks, but I was more than happy to stick my nose into that fire panel, know what every single button did and every single function did, what the outputs were able to do, when they did this, when they didn't do that, and comfort and exposure is what gave me the confidence to keep pushing down that pathway.

[6:36] Kevin Sofen: Brilliant, and now, I mean, I see the logo on your shirt, LPG Fire Australia, and I, you know, can maybe put two and two together. That's been some of the work driving the work that you're doing now with Special Hazards. What's LPG Fire working on? And tell me more about LPG Fire Australia.

[6:51] Alex Starkey: So we are a relatively small team based out of Burley on the Gold Coast. We have 25 staff members, most of them in and around Brisbane and the Gold Coast. We have a small team in Victoria. we have boots on the ground in New South Wales, we have some international team members who work remote, which is part of our support team, they're fantastic. So I float around nationally and I'll be in WA for the next six months, I suppose. But as a consulting firm, we do designs, we import and supply to the marketplace, and we offer commissioning assistance as well. So that's where we fit. Usually we're looking at specialty detection, something that isn't necessarily approved, So video flame detectors, we've done fiber optic, linear heat systems, plenty of flame detectors and hydrocarbon gas detectors and various gas detectors as well, aspirating detectors. On top of that, there's our bread and butter gaseous suppression, foam suppression, water mist suppression there, as well as the more engineered kitchen systems and so forth. So that's protecting cabinets and smaller areas.

[7:59] Kevin Sofen: That's brilliant. And I'm curious now, you've touched on a few different technologies that you're using, particularly water misting. Is there any other technologies that kind of perk your attention that you're excited about how when you're dealing with this variety, this constantly changing special hazards challenge, are there any other emerging technologies that you're looking at that could play a role either today or in the next couple of years?

[8:22] Alex Starkey: So there's probably three that are of particular interest. I think the fiber optic linear heat cable is fantastic technology that will assist not just in fire protection, but potentially improved maintenance regimes in areas that will then reduce the fire risk because the failure won't occur. And the failure is the driver for the fuel and the heat slowed in the future. So being able to run a fiber optic cable beside a set of rollers on a conveyor and determine that roller is getting close to its maintenance cycle because it's starting to heat up. We can discern half a degree Celsius over a one meter period, over a one meter stretch. That fidelity is very hard to get in any other technology. So being able to implement that in those places and then give the customer or the end user a list of rollers they need to check on their next shutdown rather than waiting for that to fail and potentially cause a fire is a pretty unique benefit. I think there's some other applications for that technology too, which could be very interesting. The water mist in general, I think is starting to get a more general application style recognition. So being able to put water mist in car parks where they don't normally have a large water supply, they don't have a large tank, they don't have a huge set of pumps, water mist becomes a very viable option to protect areas like that, especially in heavily built up areas where real estate is at a premium. So I foresee water mist becoming a bit more commonplace. so to speak in the everyday fire protection world and then the standards will catch up with that and I think they'll be integrated into that as well. The other one I just enjoy is some of these robotic autonomous water cannons so where we have a water monitor mounted from the roof or on the top of a post that communicates with a suite of flame detectors that are surveying the area. They determine the xyz parameters of where that fire is and will respond accordingly, providing an oscillating pattern or a pre-programmed pattern over the fire until it's extinguished and then go into their standby mode before if there were a re-ignition they would reapply. That kind of truly autonomous water delivery system is pretty cool.

[10:43] Kevin Sofen: Well I feel like all those things, well at least the last two I know are happening different ways. The fiber optic linear heat cable, I'm gonna have to google that, I can't say I've ever heard that before but thank you for sharing all that and now Alex I'm curious and now kind of a final question to you is like within the work that you do and everything that you've talked about here today. Is there any quote or words of wisdom or something that you live by that continues to drive the work that you do?

[11:07] Alex Starkey: Keep learning and don't shy away from a challenge. I think that's the answer. All of these systems, there's historically, it lies in the brains of all the people who aren't always willing to share. And I think the industry needs to share more knowledge, contribute to back into the marketplace and then help each other out. So that's the driver. I'm a big fan of education, a big proponent of sharing that knowledge. All of these stuff, it's written down. There are manuals out there are data sheets. We'll share all of them. We want to help, yeah, get the information and then make the right decisions. [inaudible 11:41]

[11:57] Kevin Sofen: and tell us what you enjoyed most. Take care and thanks for listening.