Episode 308: A Global Alliance to See Fire Before It Spreads with Karen O’Connor

Episode notes

What if every fire agency could detect a wildfire within minutes of ignition and track it in near real time?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy.

Recorded live at the Institution of Fire Engineers (IFE) 2025 Conference alongside the AFAC, WAFA, and Australian Institute for Disaster Resilience Conference in Perth, Australia.

In this episode, Karen O’Connor of Earth Fire Alliance shares how a nonprofit partnership is building satellites designed by firefighters for firefighters.

Shaped by direct input from agencies in Australia, the United States, and Portugal, the system is built to detect small hotspots, cover wide landscapes, and see through smoke. The goal is simple: give agencies reliable, purpose built data to support faster, more confident decisions.

As wildfire grows more intense and expands into new regions, Karen reflects on how our relationship with fire must evolve. She discusses the value of global collaboration, standardized information, and learning across borders.

The conversation also highlights how modern satellite technology can complement Indigenous land management practices. At its core, this effort is about reducing disasters and strengthening the protection of communities and ecosystems.

So take a listen to hear what she has to share.

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources.

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro, live from Perth
2. 1:24 What Earth Fire Alliance is
3. 3:24 Designing a satellite around what firefighters need
4. 6:02 Turning new data into better decisions
5. 9:22 Our changing relationship with fire
6. 12:17 Indigenous land management and old wisdom
7. 13:39 Early adopters like CAL FIRE
8. 15:44 The team behind it
9. 16:56 Words to live by

Questions answered in this episode

What is Earth Fire Alliance and when was it founded?

Karen O'Connor says Earth Fire Alliance is a nonprofit organization stood up in 2024. It was founded with the belief that high quality data on bushfires globally, given to every agency in the world, can really change our relationship with fire.

Hear it at 1:26

What capabilities did fire agencies request for the satellite system?

Karen O'Connor says fire agencies wanted to see fire as early as possible, detect hotspots as small as five meters, monitor fires on an ongoing basis with updates every 20 minutes, and see through smoke to the fire lines. The sensor system was designed with multiple wavelengths to meet these requests.

Hear it at 3:24

When did Earth Fire Alliance launch its first satellite and when will the next ones launch?

Karen O'Connor says they launched their first proto-flight satellite and got the first images down only in the last month or two. The next three satellites will be going up mid next year and will provide live data to early adopters then.

Hear it at 6:39

What is the early adopter program?

Fire agencies in Australia, the US and Portugal are part of an early adopter program. Over the next year or two they will bring the data into their systems, test integration, work on multiple use cases including monitoring prescribed burns, and help troubleshoot so the global rollout will be quicker and easier for others.

Hear it at 6:39

What challenge did CalFire announce with Earth Fire Alliance?

Karen O'Connor says CalFire announced a challenge with a US $150,000 prize pool. The challenge is broken into three problem spaces: data ingestion, data storage and data display, asking people to develop solutions that CalFire can test once the Fireset data starts coming down.

Hear it at 13:55

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 308 transcript

A Global Alliance to See Fire Before It Spreads with Karen O’Connor

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Karen O’Connor

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome highlights AI in simple tools designed for the field to the importance of mental health . in Earth Fire Alliance.

[1:26] Karen O’Connor: Earth Fire Alliance is a nonprofit organization. We were stood up in 2024 and we were stood up with the belief that high quality data on bushfires globally, given to every agency in the world, can really change our relationship we're working on some fantastic agencies in the US Portugal and Australia and which is great but actually having something that has been designed by firefighters

[2:54] Kevin Sofen: generally how they are up in space, and have a aerial view, looking down at the earth, and being able to use it for a [inaudible 3:03]

[3:24] Karen O’Connor: the size design of the satellite. So, we started with what it needed to do. And while, well, the first step we, for this project, and our team have been involved for about four years, alongside a number designed by fire agencies. When we asked them those questions, they said we need to see fire as early as possible so we have time to make decisions. So the system can detect fires. We believe we can detect a hotspot as small as five meters. And that was a direct request from the fire agencies. We need to see them small. [inaudible 4:27] how wide our sensor detected and how much land coverage we got. The third thing they said was, we need to be able to monitor fires on an ongoing basis. And so we need to know what that, if we choose to let a fire run because it might not be a risk to the community and actually might be good for the environment to reduce fuel and it looks like it's going to burn low based on the weather patterns. We still want to be able to monitor that. So that was another question from the fire agencies. And so, with the system that we've built, we're aiming to have the satellites revisit every spot on Earth on average every 20 minutes. That means every agency will get an update on what the fire is doing every 20 minutes. And then the last thing they asked for is, it needs to see through smoke. We need to see the fire lines. And so we have the design of the sensor system has multiple wavelengths. So we can see right through smoke to the fire line. And so you can see that the system was designed by the agencies for exactly what they needed to do. So purpose-built, and so we started with that and we had an amazing partner in Muon Space who were able to design a sensor with five different wavelengths that is able to monitor at a wide scale to be able to actually deliver what they've asked for.

[5:57] Kevin Sofen: I'm grateful those people exist because having this purpose-built satellite encouraging, but then it all kind of now comes down to this data is being created, which is great, but now how is this data that is now being created being used in a way that wasn't before? And I know there's this challenge that always persists in the fire service of, okay, well, here's this new data, like, good luck, make new decisions. But now that this data exists and Earth Fire Alliance is now really starting to have scale and starting to really start create consistent data. How is this data now going to be used to help different agencies start to make better and more informed decisions?

[6:39] Karen O’Connor: So I think this is going to be an ongoing journey side-by-side with fire agency experts and climate experts. We did just launch our first proto-flight satellite, got the first images down only in the last month or two. Very exciting moment for the whole team. It's been four or five years in the making. That gives us an indication of what the information is going to look like. Now that kind of the heavy workload on the ground starts and we're really grateful to have some fantastic relationships with a handful of fire agencies here in Australia and also some in the US and Portugal. And what they're going to do, so they're part of our early adopter program, what they're going to be doing over the course of the next year or two is helping us, they're going to be bringing the data into their systems and looking at ways to integrate that data in a streamlined fashion so that it can be used for decision making and an operational basis, but also looking at what all the other things throughout the year that they can do with that data because it is going to be a 365 day a year data image capture. So it's not just when there's fires lighting that you don't know about, but you could potentially use it to monitor prescribed burns and other things as well. But they are going I mean, it's it's fantastic that we've had some leading fire agencies from Australia i in the US and Portugal who put up their hands and said we'll be part of the early testing of this because they're going to be critical to the impact of this program. They will be kept getting the data for their region. There will be helping us to figure out how we streamline getting that data into their systems. And then they will be working on multiple different use cases of how they're going to use that data. And in that process, they'll be feeding back and helping us iterate over the period of time that we're testing this and helping us to capture information about all of the potential use cases of this system. And the whole point of that is then that as we roll it out globally, it'll be much quicker and easier for others to take it up because this core group has kind of troublesh it and learned all the lessons over the next year that will help everyone else. And so we will be launching the next three satellites, which will be live, they will be going up mid next year. And all of those early adopters will be using that data live then, and then that will be even more information that we can acknowledge generations through their use of it that will help us to streamline how we're going to roll this out globally, because ultimately the whole point is that everyone gets access to it. and that shift in data use is what gives us the impact on wildfire.

[9:22] Kevin Sofen: And it's kind of in the name, Earth Fire Alliance, and you'd mentioned that term earlier, our relationship with fire. Obviously, the role that what you're doing with satellites and Crainus data is a part of all this, but the Earth Fire Alliance, the relationship with fire, I'm curious to maybe even. take a historical context in this of like, have we lost our touch with our relationship with fire? And how are we, what is our status with our relationship with fire at the moment?

[9:49] Karen O’Connor: I think there's probably two pieces to that. I think different parts of the world have possibly lost touch with their relationship with fire over decades. and generations and hundreds of years of how fire has been managed in the landscape. And you know, there's even different regions in Australia that manage it quite differently. There's a lot of cultural land management practices still undergoing. So I think our relationship in certain regions has changed a little bit. You know, there's a lot of technology out there. Does that mean we should be putting out every fire? Maybe not. And it's not for us to say. So we don't see it as our role to, that this data is going to enforce any particular behavior by the fire agencies. It's up to the fire agencies to make use of it ause for the best possible outcomes. But that said, we now are going to be coming upon really hard decades where we know wildfire is going to get more extreme, more intense and more common. And we are also going to have fire in regions that we never had it before. We're already seeing that in Australia that large scale fires don't often hit the tropical regions, but they are starting to hit the tropical regions. And so we do need to change our relationship with fire if we're going to adapt, to what that is going to look like in the next decade or two. And I think learning lessons and learning lessons together is what is going to get us there, and that's why we are taking that global approach, because all of the agencies can help each other if they all have standardized information, and they can help each other grow and learn more quickly. And that's going to be particularly valuable for those regions that don't have a history of fire, like Australia has a history.

[11:36] Kevin Sofen: Well said, and thank you for sharing that context. And I've had a few different people on the podcast already today talking about this relationship with fire, nature based solutions, what are different ways that we can continue to tap into some of our indigenous first people and then ancestral knowledge about fire, while also now combining that with how do we leverage these floating devices in the sky that give us an unfair advantage over what those fire is? So it's that kind of balance of historical lifelong or kind of previous generation before us wisdom with this balance of modern day, highly advanced technology?

[12:17] Karen O’Connor: I will say like, just because it's old wisdom doesn't mean it's not still very useful. And I will also say just because people practice old practices like cultural land management, doesn't mean they're not early adopters of technology, because I actually think they both go hand in hand. And there are a lot of amazing indigenous land management practice groups up in northern Australia that use really new technologies to achieve the same, things that they used to do hundreds of years ago. And they do use current satellite information. And I think that once the fireset data is available to them,. They will be able to do so much with that information. As I said, they're quite entrepreneurial. A lot of the groups that are doing this work, for example, there are a number of able to sell carbon credits because the work that they're doing, they've shown that by doing the indigenous practices that they're doing, they're reducing the chances of a bigger fire happening, which would release more emissions. So they're really quite entrepreneurial in

[13:39] Kevin Sofen: work.edu stakeholders you work with, and earlier you're mentioning obviously Earth Fire Alliance, but then also the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation and also a lot of the work you're doing in California with CalFire. And there's some new initiative that you mentioned, it was just hit the streets last night. Can you tell me about that?

[13:55] Karen O’Connor: it's very exciting. Yeah, so CAL FIRE is one of our early adopters. And they want to get ahead of the game and get themselves ready for when the fireset data comes. And so it was great to be able to announce overnight collaboration between Earth Fire [inaudible 14:10] want to really help to solve this problem, there is a big opportunity here. So they've announced a challenge. You can go to their website and you can find it. And the challenge is that they would like to, it's broken into three problem spaces. It's about data ingestion, data storage and data display. So how they're going to bring the data in, how they're going to store it, how they're going to use it. And it's a US $150,000 prize pool for the people who can actually develop some that then they can test once the Farset data starts coming down. So you can show that our broader alliance members are already starting to think and innovate about how they're going to start using this data.

[15:08] Kevin Sofen: Brilliant, it's exciting to see how far it's come and to see all the different team members are involved. And I know there's a lot, but obviously I've had the fortune of working with Brian Collins, and I know he's been a key part of it as well as Jenny Biggs and as well as all the work at XPrize and countless other people said, and just really excited to see where it's heading. So kudos, thank you. And I guess my final two questions I want to throw And like, you know, we're looking back 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years from now, you know, what's a legacy that you hope Earth Fire Alliance leaves in this world?

[15:44] Karen O’Connor: I think, you know, the team, as you said, we've got an amazing passionate team behind us and we're all here for the right reasons. all here because we want to make change. And a few of us say this is the biggest thing we will do in our career to deliver this for the world. And I think I've never really thought about what 20 years time looks like, but I think the legacy for me is that every fire agency has had the ability to lift their when it comes to wildfire, and every fire agency has built the confidence in knowing that they have a reliable source of information on their entire jurisdiction, and they don't have to go searching for wildfires anymore. They can do what they do really well and make decisions about how they respond to protect communities and protect ecosystems, but at least they no longer have to go searching for them anymore. them anymore, and I think that to me will mean that there's a complete shift in how fires are managed. So the legacy for me is that there are no more fires that become disasters. That's ultimately it.

[16:56] Kevin Sofen: Love that, Karen. And my final thing I want to throw at you is there any quote that you have or words of wisdom that you live by, whether it's something on your fridge or something that you apply within your daily life, within your work at Earth Fire Alliance or any sort of favorite quotes of sorts that you could share with us?

[17:16] Karen O’Connor: I think I think I used this one last year, so I'm feeling, I'm trying to search for another one. I mean, the word that comes out of my mouth regularly about this program is game changer. And I think we're aiming for a game changer. But as Kate Dargan often says, firefighting is not a game. so I fully agree with her on that. But finding things, not just Earth, Fire, Alliance, but finding a handful of things that completely change how everyone works with these critical, environmental extreme weather events I think is necessary. So we need multiple game changers and I will find another word for a game so that Kate Tarkin doesn't get upset with me ever again. I can't think of one off the top of my head. We'll work on that and we'll get

[18:10] Kevin Sofen: back to you. And well, Karen, it's always a pleasure. Look forward to continue to work together and cross paths. And thanks for all the work that you're leading with the Earth

[18:17] Karen O’Connor: Fire Alliance. Thank you very much, Kevin.

[18:19] Kevin Sofen: Cheers. Till next time. Thanks. Appreciate it. And that's a wrap for this episode of the Smart Fire Funding Podcast. If you found value in this conversation, hit like, leave a comment, share it to someone, and tell us what you enjoyed most. take care, and thanks for listening.