Episode 306: Why Time Matters Most in Fireground Decision-Making with Peter Dekkers

Episode notes

How many decisions do you make in seconds on the fireground, and what happens if technology slows you down?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy.

Recorded live at the Institution of Fire Engineers (IFE) 2025 Conference alongside the AFAC, WAFA, and Australian Institute for Disaster Resilience Conference in Perth, Australia.

In this episode, Peter Dekkers from Teledyne FLIR talks about one idea that continues to define public safety operations: time. From interior fire attack to wide area search and wildland operations, Peter explains how thermal imaging helps first responders make faster and better decisions when every second carries weight.

He shares what’s new inside FLIR’s latest K Series fire cameras, including a major shift in responsiveness that removes image delay when moving across temperature ranges, allowing crews to stay focused without missing critical details. The discussion also explores the Scout Pro and its role across fire and law enforcement, from missing person searches and maritime response to supporting wildfire suppression from the ground.

The episode closes with a clear message about trust, not as a slogan, but as a responsibility. When first responders carry technology into dangerous environments, their lives depend on it working exactly as promised, every time.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share.

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources.

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Recorded live at IFE 2025 in Perth
2. 0:55 Peter Dekkers of Teledyne FLIR
3. 1:58 FLIR doesn't sell cameras, it sells time
4. 3:36 The newly designed K Series
5. 5:23 A new detector with no image delay
6. 7:07 The Scout Pro for search, maritime and wildland
7. 11:18 The Darley and FLIR partnership
8. 14:05 What's next for FLIR in public safety
9. 15:35 Trust as a responsibility, and sign-off

Questions answered in this episode

What does Peter Dekkers mean when he says FLIR sells time?

Peter Dekkers explains that FLIR helps first responders make faster and better decisions. The goal is to allow firefighters, law enforcement, or search and rescue officers to find people quicker or identify hotspots much faster.

Hear it at 2:30

What makes the new K Series camera different from previous models?

Peter Dekkers says the new K Series operates in one single range with no high gain or low gain mode. There is absolutely no delay or freeze when the camera shifts temperature ranges, so firefighters will not miss a single detail. It uses a completely new detector design.

Hear it at 3:51

What is the Scout Pro camera designed for?

Peter Dekkers describes the Scout Pro as a long range device for first responders, with a range of 500 meters up to about one mile depending on the model. It is used for person search, missing person search, wildland fire management, man overboard situations, general security, and helping navigate pilots where to drop water.

Hear it at 7:07

How does Peter Dekkers see AI helping firefighters in the future?

Peter Dekkers says the next step is to help users process information through AI so cameras can provide better information to the user. The goal is to offload data processing to the camera so the first responder can focus on other things and make decisions faster and more efficiently.

Hear it at 14:13

What does Peter Dekkers say is most important in business?

Trust. Peter Dekkers says trust is most important because the devices FLIR supplies are there to save other people and sometimes the lives of the first responders themselves. Users must trust the technology to save their own lives, so FLIR stands behind its products.

Hear it at 15:56

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 306 transcript

Why Time Matters Most in Fireground Decision-Making with Peter Dekkers

Speakers: Peter Dekkers, Kevin Sofen

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss]. Built from two transcription passes of the same audio (Whisper small.en and medium.en) merged to fill gaps.

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to our podcast miniseries recorded live at the institution of fire engineers 2025 conference in Perth, Australia, alongside the AFAC, WAFA, and the Australian Institute for Disaster Resilience conferences. With over 28 conversations with fire chiefs, engineers, researchers, and innovators, we explored how the fire and emergency community is adapting to a rapidly changing world. From climate resilience and community-led adaption to the rise of new technologies like satellites, AI, and simple tools designed for the field to the importance of mental health, diversity, and global collaboration. These episodes highlight the shared challenges and inspiring solutions shaping the future of safety. Enjoy. All right. Well, it's an honor and a pleasure to be sitting alongside a frequent smart firefighting podcast visitor, Peter Dekkers from FLIR. Peter, how are you doing?

[0:56] Peter Dekkers: I'm doing good. Thank you, Kevin.

[0:58] Kevin Sofen: Good to see you. Hanover to Indianapolis to now Perth, Australia, it's always good to cross paths.

[1:05] Peter Dekkers: Yeah, absolutely. It's worth the long flight.

[1:08] Kevin Sofen: So how has your experience down under been?

[1:11] Peter Dekkers: Very good. So it's my first time here in Australia. It's a long travel, but very rewarding, especially also from a business sense, because the Australians are really spending a lot of effort in upgrading their firefighting technologies, and generally we , and we also like the people. It's very nice to hang out with, very open, friendly, and they have some humor here as well.

[1:39] Kevin Sofen: Yes, and [inaudible 1:41] You're not selling the hammer, you're not selling the nail, you're selling devices on the table, and they're perceived to be selling infrared cameras, but really what FLIR doesn't sell infrared cameras, FLIR sells time. And that's a quote that I referenced quite a bit when talking about that analogy of you're not selling the hammer, you're not selling the nail, you-re selling the hung painting on the wall. You told me that quote back in 2022. How would you say that quote has aged, and what are your thoughts in terms of, again, FLIR's value prop message with how FLIR sells time?

[2:30] Peter Dekkers: Also, it really stands up that we would like to help first responders to make faster and reason why we are also kind of updating and releasing new products, which will allow the first responder, the firefighter, or the law enforcement official, or the search and rescue officer to find that person quicker or to identify that hotspot much quicker. I find in turmoil, so we have a bit of a look for hotspots. R And that's also, it has been a very interesting year right now, 2035 for Fleur, because on both the law enforcement side and on the firefighting side, we are introducing new products, which allow the first responder to make faster decisions. So basically talking about, okay, time. So we help them to make decisions faster and more efficient.

[3:36] Kevin Sofen: game of infrared cameras for quite some time. I'm looking at some new different handheld cameras here on the table. This one, in particular, the K Series looks familiar. Is this what's new or unique about this K Series? And tell me more about kind of this one that I'm looking at right here.

[3:51] Peter Dekkers: Yeah, so we are introducing a completely new designed K Series. So from the outside, it may look the same. And we did it for a reason because we want to keep all the trusted designers, so fire departments in the US or here in Europe and also here in Australia they're using the K Series. So we didn't want to touch it up so we wanted to have this big display pistol grip so you're always in a very active mode. But what is really new and I like to reference to speed. If you have worked with two more cameras for firefighting cameras shift from, high sensitivity to low sensitivity mode. So the camera is only in high sensitivity mode when the temperatures are a little bit lower. When you start looking at the fire, changing to a low sensitivity mode in order to capture those higher temperatures. And what we designed, and that is completely new, is that there is no absolutely no delay or freeze in the camera anymore. So the camera doesn't shift from high gain to low gain, because simply there is no high and low gain mode. So all cameras operate in one single range, so you have an extremely response of camera. So no matter what you do, you will not miss a single thing. Colorization kicks in as you reach the threshold. And that makes the camera, yeah, by far the most response of camera. So this allows the firefighter to make faster decisions because he should not be worried about missing any detail.

[5:23] Kevin Sofen: Just to double click into that one a little bit more, I mean, how is it doing that? Is it now we just have faster processing chips? Is it the product engineering team has now created better software. I mean, that all sounds great. I'm just curious, you know, FLIR's true continued innovation. How's FLIR doing it?

[5:41] Peter Dekkers: It's a completely new detector, dedicated detector we designed. And instead of having two modes, you can compare with a stick shift to the cars, or you have a gear one, gear two. That's what normal fire cameras are doing. But in this case, you just have one gear from coldest temperature to the hottest temperature. So there's one gear. So there's no shifting moment, like you have in a car. So from cold, still hot, no delay. You stay in that same single gear R. That means that you won't have that bumpy shift going from, yeah, lower temperature to higher temperature. And it's really absolutely, there's no auto-manufacturer who has that and we did it intentionally because we receive feedback from our valued customers and say hey sometimes we may miss there that might be a bump, when we are looking from a cold area to a hot area and now it's completely gone. So it's extremely responsive to camera.

[6:46] Kevin Sofen: That's awesome and kudos to you and the engineering team. I feel like FLIR does such a great job of continuing to listen to the customers and apply that to the engineering. So well done. I know you're heavily involved in that. And then next to it, I mean, I remember seeing maybe the sneak peek of this at the FDIC, but the scout, it almost looks like something that I see hunters use,

[7:07] Peter Dekkers: but what is it? And how is it different than the K-series? And tell me more about the Scout camera to be used inside the building predominantly and go after that missing person or looking for that hotspot. The Scout Pro is actually our first responder camera because it fits both more enforcement and the firefighting market and it's a long range device, so which you would a normally use outside. So The range of this camera, depending on the model, is 500 meters, so about 500 yards, 600 yards, up to about one mile range depending on the model. And what you do with this is looking for not only persons, missing persons, men of board situations, in case you use it on a boat. But for, especially applicable here for Australia is to use this for wildland fire management, because there are on the ground to look over larger distances to see if there are any hot pockets. And [inaudible 8:23] extremely expensive exercises and if you miss a location, you waste 10,000 more usually because of the seps. But if you have someone on the ground pointing, okay, well, it's that direction, it really helps the pilot to drop the stuff where it needs to be. So basically, if you saved one miss, you're ready, you're in the background. So it's a small to you. So person search, missing person search, man overboard situations, general security, and helping navigating pilots, you're where they should drop the water.

[9:18] Kevin Sofen: I mean, when I think about, when I first look at that, it looks like something that - you would have on a long range sniper, but if anything, kind of hypothetically, it's something where, yeah, from afar, being able to kind of almost have a, it's like this long range tactical infrared camera that if you're on a watch tower or something, you're able to with just, you know, one human can go up in the tower and use it to kind of really get some, develop, start to develop some pretty good situation awareness.

[9:45] Peter Dekkers: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so that's where it's made for. So we stepped out of the consumer market because we used to have cameras for hunters and outdoor people. This camera, we went back to the drawing table And we really talked to a lot of law enforcement professionals, either it be a policeman, SWAT teams, defense, both in US, Europe, and we got our feedback. And basically what they said is that we want to have a product which is regularized, because given the circumstances, it may fall on the it might be raining, so it should be shockproof, which it is, two meter draw. so six feet or six feet two. Rub on concrete, no problem. It's watertight, and especially the menu here. a couple of options, not too many. It's not's not a consumer product. It only has options which matter for the application. So it's very simple to navigate the menu. And it also uses like the K Series now, a 640 by 480 resolution detector, which is the best resolution you can get below military grade products. So it really helps. Also the officer on the watchtower look for hotspots over long distances. So, you don't need to rely on drones, which maybe have a limited flying time or maybe are not available because maybe it's too windy. This time, this thing works daytime, nighttime, no matter what the circumstances are.

[11:18] Kevin Sofen: Brilliant, and I appreciate everything that, you know, you've continued to do to bring innovation to the fire. And I know Also, we've talked about this before, but the FLIR and Darley relationship and how Darley's continued to be a strategic partner with FLIR, particularly on the fireside. Could you speak to some of the Darley and FLIR relationship and how Darley and FLIR have continued to evolve and grow together over the years?

[11:44] Peter Dekkers: Yeah, and absolutely. So, actually the cooperation already starts, dates back to 2013, so that's already 12-years ago when we introduced the first generation of K Series and ever since it has been a really true success story, not only in the Midwest R, where D Darlie's home turf is, but all across the US. And I think what is most important with Darlie, the Darlie family, but also the Darl R people is that they eat, sleep and drink firefighting and also law enforcement. So when they talk to a customer, they can give the customer the rights as advice. So we have many products and actually Darlie . Darlie can be seen more as a consultant to the customer instead of an outlet, because they help the customer making the right decisions. So, they're not fooling. I want to have the quick money, but they really talk to the customer because they speak the language. Because, most of the Darlie members are also first responders, and that's I think very important. So there's no, blah, it's trust. And that is very much valued by his wife, Fleur. So we will have, many more successful years.

[13:04] Kevin Sofen: Well said. rich and celebrated partnership within the Darley headquarters and it's great to see because I think, I mean, I know, I'm not sure how long has FLIR been around as far as a company?

[13:16] Peter Dekkers: Around 50 years.

[13:17] Kevin Sofen: 50 years?

[13:18] Peter Dekkers: Yeah.

[13:19] Kevin Sofen: So, K [inaudible 13:21] The [inaudible 13:37] work that you're doing at FLIR, and then work within public safety in general. What is Peter most excited about looking forward to?

[14:13] Peter Dekkers: So actually, I think we are already very good at our technology level about the sensors and the hardware and that writes, that right information to the user and our next step is to help the user processing that information through AI so we can help making even better and smarter decisions because for our first responder if the first responder the fireman is using our cameras it's always kind of in a hectic situation and okay you go through training and you have a experience but maybe all of a sudden the roof collapses, or all of a sudden here, okay, well, maybe there's a second person upstairs, and that changes all of a sudden your focus. With AI and other maybe future technologies, we hope that our cameras can provide that information R to the user, so the user can focus on other things. But we like to kind of offload a lot of the data processing to the camera so that the first responder can focus on a lot of things. So basically helping the guy or the girl to achieve what he needs to achieve much quicker and faster and more efficient.

[15:29] Kevin Sofen: Faster of better decisions.

[15:30] Peter Dekkers: Yeah, time again.

[15:32] Kevin Sofen: Time, it's always time.

[15:34] Peter Dekkers: Yeah.

[15:35] Kevin Sofen: So to round us out here, Peter, you've given me a lot of good quotes and insights to chew on my upcoming 30 plus hour journey home, But is there any quote that you love or live by, or any words of wisdom that you've learned within the past, you know, your career, or anything like that you could share with us today?

[15:56] Peter Dekkers: No, what I learned actually, and have been kind of affirmed also these days here in Perth, is in business is trust, is that you keep up to your promises. I think that's also something between Fleur and Darley, but also within Darley I think your customers, and when we talk to customers, they must trust us because the devices we supply, the solutions are there to not only save other people, but it also saves sometimes the life of the first responder themselves when he or she is in a building and he needs to get out and there's no visibility. So I think that our users also trust in our a technology to save their own lives. So trust is very important. So you can't just write it on a paper and say, hey, okay, well, this is safe. It will help you will be good. But you must prove that. And I think that's the reason why, you know, think all our people our sales people or our product managers they can be held accountable for these things so I think I think we stand behind our products and I think that's the same thing what Darlie this so it comes back to trust and that's most important so no blah stories we go for yeah simply trust well said I mean like you said

[17:26] Kevin Sofen: they're these first responders are trusting their lives with the product and solution, and Darley and FLIR are putting their name behind these technology solutions and they're not doing it just because they're doing it because they believe in it and it's these tools that are needed. If you lose trust, then you got nothing. So I appreciate everything that you and FLIR continue to do to drive the fire service forward. Peter, I'm so looking forward to where we may meet again. We've met on a few continents from Europe, North So I think, you know, we've got South America and Africa to hit next. All right.

[18:01] Peter Dekkers: Okay.

[18:02] Kevin Sofen: Good. Yeah. So let's start. Well, we'll indirectly start planning those trips soon.

[18:06] Peter Dekkers: Good. Sounds like a plan.

[18:08] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. Thanks, Peter.

[18:10] Peter Dekkers: It's a pleasure.

[18:13] Kevin Sofen: Thank you. Appreciate it. And that's a. If you found value in this conversation, hit like, leave a comment, share it to someone, and tell us what you enjoyed most. Take care and thanks for listening.