Episode 290: Volunteer Fire Service, Training Barriers, and the Future of Recruitment with Brittany Hollerbach

Episode notes

What are the essential factors for firefighter readiness and retention?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

What are the biggest challenges for recruiting volunteer firefighters?

How to fit local needs better and reduce barriers to entry

How can immersive learning tools empower smaller departments?

Hear from Brittany Hollerbach - an Associate Scientist for NDRI-USA, Inc.

Brittany shares findings from her FEMA- and NFPA-funded research on recruitment and retention in the volunteer fire service. She explains why time commitment, not training requirements alone, is a major challenge for volunteers balancing family, work, and service.

Brittany highlights how immersive learning, modular training, and creative community support can lower barriers and strengthen engagement. The conversation also explores broader health and wellness issues, from preventative approaches to the critical role of sleep in firefighter performance and longevity.

So take a listen to hear what she has to share!

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro from the TRAIN summit
2. 0:37 Welcome back, Brittany Hollerbach
3. 2:26 Recruitment and retention across the fire service
4. 3:56 Why volunteer recruitment is so hard
5. 6:43 What's in it for me: time and new parents
6. 9:40 Is immersive tech being embraced?
7. 11:55 What Sarah Jahnke means to the field
8. 14:57 The AED story and change management
9. 17:47 Prevention and the importance of sleep
10. 21:42 Wrap

Questions answered in this episode

Why is volunteer fire service recruitment and retention so challenging right now?

Brittany Hollerbach says recruitment and retention issues affect both career and volunteer firefighters. The fire service used to have thousands of people applying for a handful of jobs, but that is no longer the case. Departments now have to think outside the box about how to recruit and retain individuals, which means marketing what they can offer to people and thinking differently.

Hear it at 4:43

What are some ways volunteer fire departments are adapting to help families participate?

Brittany Hollerbach says many volunteer organizations now offer different roles beyond interior firefighting, such as exterior firefighting or bringing supplies to and from the truck. Some departments have also started providing childcare, with a designated person at whose house members can drop kids off so they can respond to calls or attend training.

Hear it at 7:38

How is simulation training helping volunteer fire departments?

Brittany Hollerbach explains that simulation training is especially helpful in the volunteer sector where departments may not have acquired structures for burns or burn towers. Technology allows them to do training on their own time instead of having to go to a state training academy for multiple weekends, and it helps them still get training experience even without physical training facilities.

Hear it at 7:38

What did Sarah Jahnke's father predict about fire service technology?

Kevin Sofen shares that Sarah Jahnke's dad proposed putting an AED on every fire truck in the late 80s or early 90s, and firefighters laughed him out of the fire station thinking it was a terrible idea. A few weeks or months later they put an AED in the fire truck, and now it would be unthinkable not to have one.

Hear it at 14:57

Why is sleep important for firefighter health?

Brittany Hollerbach says lack of sleep can impact cardiovascular disease, cancer risk, reproductive health, fertility, and mental health. Different parts of the sleep cycle, including REM and deep sleep, do different things, so getting only part of your sleep means you might refresh your memory but not your immune system. She notes that researchers are looking at preventative strategies like changing alerting tones, lights, and using wearable vibration alerts to improve sleep.

Hear it at 17:19

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 290 transcript

Volunteer Fire Service, Training Barriers, and the Future of Recruitment with Brittany Hollerbach

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Brittany Hollerbach

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome back to the Smart Firefighting Podcast. Today, we're at the Train Summit, where leaders from across the fire service, research, and industry are tackling one big question. How can immersive learning make training better, faster, and safer? From virtual reality and simulators to new performance rubrics, we explore how technology can boost decision-making, generational gaps and bring more sets and reps to every firefighter, whether it's in a big city or a rural volunteer. It's about turning cool tools into trusted training that delivers real results. Enjoy. All right. We are here at the IFSI train summit. I think podcast number four already losing count, which is a good thing with Brittany Hollerbach. Brittany, how you doing? I'm good, Kevin. How are you? I'm doing well, welcome back to Champaign. Good to have you here. I know you were been traveling quite a bit. So how's your time in Champaign and so far?

[1:01] Brittany Hollerbach: It's good. I just got in late last night. And so yeah, I have been traveling a lot, which normally, Sarah does all the traveling, I like, hop in here and there. So to do like back to back travel is not normal for me. So I feel like my brain is a little bit fuzzy, but we'll go with it. And here

[1:19] Kevin Sofen: I know the and frankly, it's part of the travel [inaudible 1:31]

[2:26] Brittany Hollerbach: We're seeing recruitment or retention issues, fire service wide, right, like career volunteer, that's, you know, there's There's no contesting that. And we're seeing recruitment and retention issues [inaudible 2:49] service,

[3:44] Kevin Sofen: of the fire service if not you know about some of the challenges that we face in the volunteer fire service with as particularly when it comes to recruitment and retention you take of within the study that's going on why is recruitment and retention from a volunteer perspective such a challenge in what are some of the findings that you've seen in the early findings of you the report that you're working on? [inaudible 4:33]

[4:43] Brittany Hollerbach: can identify that the fire service needs training. [inaudible 4:48] there has been nothing over two stories in your jurisdiction, right or so yeah it's, it's would sit in to and folks went and applied and you could have thousands of people applying for a handful of jobs. And that's not the case anymore, not for a career and not for a volunteer. So I think the fire service is having to think outside the box as far as how are we recruiting and retaining individuals? And so that looks different. And marketing, like, the so what can I offer you as an individual to come and volunteer for my organization or to work as a career in my organization. And I think that's new for the fire service. But yeah, it really kind of blew my mind that it [inaudible 6:23] than training requirements per se.

[6:43] Kevin Sofen: I love that you said that phrase of so what, and what's in it for me. That is a big dynamic where of course the sisterhood and the brotherhood is such a big component of the fire service. Having said that, I mean I just had my first son and I look at how I'm spending my time and heck, my life, my life is very different than it was two months ago and I love it. Having said that, I'm saying no to more and I'm saying yes to fewer things and be more intentional about everything. I could imagine putting myself in the shoes of a young father or mother in rural America considering their roles of volunteer fire service, time is limited and [inaudible 7:26]

[7:38] Brittany Hollerbach: Yeah, absolutely. So when you ask that question, you sparked a few things in my brain. One was, volunteer organizations are talking about getting more people involved in different. So you talk about new moms and new dads. And I think it's very important that we're looking at the fire service as a collection of all the different things it takes to make an organization run. Right. So it doesn't necessarily have to be an interior firefighter. You could be an exterior firefighter bringing supplies to and from the truck. So you'd still have to have a familiarity of equipment but perhaps not ideal age environment training. So that was kind of unrelated to your question but there's so many different opportunities available. And folks also I'm glad that you mentioned having a new child. A lot of volunteer organizations that I've spoken with have talked about the necessity of perhaps having child care available. So when folks can respond to the station they know there's a designated individual who they can drop the kids off at this person's house and perhaps they go of, you and then go like skills testing. And that saves so much time for the individual because they're they're able to do so much on their own time versus having to go two weeks or you know four weekends to their state training academy. They can do a lot on their own. And so I think there's that. And then there's a ton of like simulation training that helps especially in the volunteer realm where they may not have acquired structures for burns, they may not have burn towers, and so the ability for them to still do some type of training, but perhaps using more reliance on technology is really helpful in the volunteer sector..

[9:40] Kevin Sofen: And from your early findings, has it been well received to where people are saying, hey, this isn't just a toy, but this is a tool that helps us get the training, that helps us do the job more effectively, helps us accomplish these training needs from a cultural change management perspective. have you seen an evolution to embracing the technology more?

[10:03] Brittany Hollerbach: Yeah, so that's an excellent question. So I think that there is certainly a learning curve as with anything. And the departments that I've talked to that are already using the tech, I think they've already bridged that gap. And so they've had to set and anytime you can get hands-on with the firefighters and one is a benefit to the firefighters. They're super excited about anything hands-on. I've talked to individuals and So I think it's really well received in the organizations that are using it. In organizations that aren ingrained kind of in their culture, but if they're not using it yet, I think there still perhaps is gonna be going to be that learning curve and you know the right associated with technology as well so perhaps there's budgetary, [inaudible 11:42]

[11:55] Kevin Sofen: Of course, there's all these different mechanisms of immersive learning, and so it's exciting to hear that, and we would be remiss in this conversation not to mention the one and only Dr. Sarah Jahnke. I call her my fairy godmother. She's definitely the nerd godmother of all the nerds out there. But just to riff on for a second, what has Sarah Jahnke done for the industry? and what are some, if we can give Sarah a little rose here and some shout out. What does Sarah Jahnke mean to you? What's Sarah kind of done for the fire industry and your perspective?

[12:29] Brittany Hollerbach: Holy cow. So I feel like on one hand, I have to give Sarah all the flowers because when I came into the fire service, so Sarah and I are both from the Kansas City area. Her dad I was there, but crazy connections. Then I was in grad school, and my mentor happened to be working with Sarah and DRI on a army training grant, looking at high intensity functional training and training outcomes in the military. And my grad mentor was like, oh, well, if you're interested in firefighters, like reach out to this group, they do a lot of fire service research. And so I had seen Sarah's name on academic papers. And so then I got to talk to her on the phone, and she was so kind and so patient. And she was like, yeah, like what are you interested in? And I'm like, I'm like, firefighter research? And she's like, okay, like, qualitative, quantitative. And I'm like, I'm in grad school, this one, maybe I was, I was in the last year of undergrad. But I'm like, my, brain's blanking. I don't know what qualitative and quantitative like, I'm like, I don't know. And she's like, Okay, great, like, let's talk about this. And we have this project and you could get involved in this way and that way. And so I have to say, Sarah is so incredibly patient and I see that moving forward like I know that she mentored me she still mentors me she's ever I meet with her weekly and every single week I have this a long list I'm like okay I have all these things to talk to you about and she go through your list and like just so patient and kind and I mentioned at the outset that I have been traveling a lot like in the past three or four weeks And I am grumpy and my brain is fogged up. And she does this on like on the regular. And she's always so kind and patient in like speaking with everybody. And she remembers folks names and where she met them. And my brain is on overload. Like, I see people and I'm like, Do I know you? Have I seen you before? Like, and it's, it's not a reflection on that individual at all. It's just me and my brain exhaustion. So my I don't know how she does it's truly incredible. She has done some of the most groundbreaking research in the fire service. I mean, she's one of like the fire service OGs when you look at FEMA funding, when it initiated and the, you know, Dr. Janke, Dr. Burgess, Dr. Gabon Martinez, Dr. Graber, the core folks that the OG researchers that really started everything. And I'm so blessed to be able to work with her. Like it's hands down, it's amazing.

[14:57] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, well, to echo that, I mean, I had Sarah speak at the NextGen Tech Summit just at FDIC a couple weeks ago, and I asked her to speak on the, she gave a presentation on technology, and then she asked me before, she's like, so what do you want me to talk about? And I'm like, well, obviously she does so much on the health and wellness side, but I was asking her to lean into some of the nuances of technology adoption and change management and kind of what can the tech do for you? And she gave this great story talking, and she talked to her dad the day before the presentation and she's was talking to her dad about tech and her dad had brought up that, hey, in like the late 80s, early 90s, he was talking with the firefighters in the firehouse thinking, hey, I got this great idea. We should put an AED on every fire truck. And they all looked at them. They're like, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And they laughed him out of the fire station. And then a couple, again, a couple weeks, couple months later, in terms of kind of ingraining that concept, they put an AED in the fire truck. And now, you know, it'd be remiss, how could you not have an AED on the firetruck? And it kind of speaks to that, there's that phrase in the fire service of 100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress, which I will stand to die on the sword of that. It's not true. It just, sometimes the change just takes a little bit longer. It's sometimes the whole dynamic I think part of our objective is how do we continue to shorten that time frame of innovation and change management. just wanted to, yeah, kudos to Sarah's dad, I don't know Sarah's [inaudible 16:49]

[17:19] Brittany Hollerbach: funding is in jeopardy. And as is NIH at preventative strategies, and that's across the board. We continue to look at what can we do preventatively to prevent firefighter cardiovascular-related deaths and strokes? How can we prevent cancer? So that we're not just talking about how do we deal with it once someone's diagnosed, but really more on that preventative side. And one thing that really has emerged as important is the topic of sleep. And I think, like, how often do you hear from firefighters, like, oh, sleep when I die? Okay, let me talk about how important sleep is for you while you're here. You know this as a new dad, like, so important. And a lack of sleep can impact all these other things from cardiovascular disease to your cancer risk to reproductive health and fertility and mental health. Oh my gosh, mental health. And so, yeah, I think that's one of the things that's new on the horizon and thinking through technology and how can we like change alerting tones in the stations and change lights and is there like a Vibra alert on in your bunker room and like all the different and for the volunteer fire service as well like are we alerting folks still with a radio in the bedroom and you're waking your partner and yourself when you get a call in the middle of the night and how can we change that and perhaps it's like a white a watch a device that's worn on the firefighter so we're only waking up the entire family so many different things but yeah I think sleep is one of the huge things that's on the horizon that again is like a preventative factor rather than a reaction.

[19:09] Kevin Sofen: Yeah and sometimes people are obsessed with taking the kind of like the Advil versus vitamins analogy where it's you know where it's we're kind of more quick to kind of try and just take something to cover up the problem as opposed to really looking at and you know to be more proactive. And at the Illinois Metro Chief's event. Sarah gets up there and she's like, okay, that was cool. Now I'm gonna talk to you about sleep and semen. And like talking about the dynamic of sleep has this direct correlation in terms of the male reproductive health. and if you were averaging higher amounts of sleep, how it led to higher sperm count and all this. Again, it was like it really caught everyone's attention when thinking about from something you can control, which is sleep, how you can directly improve your reproductive abilities from a male perspective. And I think as well as, granted, I just had a child and I'm, I got six hours of sleep last night, so I'm pretty stoked. But I do know that, you know, you should always strive for eight, even if you're like, oh, I'm good on five or six. And I also know I'm in a temporary period of life right now. but I'm always after hearing that and once I get back to new normal I'm definitely always gonna strive for eight just because I know it's just a domino effect to everything else in my life being better

[20:35] Brittany Hollerbach: yeah absolutely it is crazy impactful sleep is and I honestly I and you don't know and like it's one of those things that people like oh yeah it's okay or I'll get caught up and I don't think people realize how much like missing different parts of your sleep cycle so there's REM sleep there's deep sleep And if you're not getting, each of those pieces does something different. And so if you're only getting part of your sleep, like perhaps you're refreshing your memory and download system, but you're not refreshing your immune system. And there's so many different pieces that goes on when we're sleeping. So like a lack of sleep, like you said, can lead to decreased testosterone levels, decreased sperm volume, motility, impacting fertility, reproductive health, like so all of these things that I don't even think like we realize that it's impacting.

[21:20] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, and then also, again, like, the impact of if you have had a couple drinks in the night, and then all of a sudden you sleep, and it's like, yeah, you get sleep, but then how alcohol impacts your sleep, where if you get, it's not something you shouldn't drink, but it's if you drink all the time, this is why it's impacting your sleep and you're not getting these types of sleep Thank you for being here and taking the time to talk shop on everything you're doing with NRI, and I look forward to continue to follow all the exciting research and outputs that you, Sarah, all that you do for public safety.