Episode 279: Law Enforcement Embraces Tech-Driven Drone Support with Zach Finfrock

Episode notes

Is technology a part of the job now?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

How drones are a low-cost, high-impact alternative to traditional air support

The real-time collaboration tools that are changing how agencies work together

Why resistance to change can cost your department more than you think

Hear from Sergeant Zach Finfrock from the Clarendon Hills Police Department.

Zach shares how drones are becoming essential tools for modern policing. He walks through the evolution of their drone program, the creation of a dual-purpose patrol vehicle, and how agencies can start small and scale thoughtfully.

The conversation covers the practical impact of drones in missing person searches, scene overwatch, and multi-agency coordination. Zach also dives into real-time crime centers, AI’s growing role in law enforcement, and why embracing new tech is about being ready for what comes next.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share!

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro
2. 0:53 Zach Finfrock joins after a tour of the drone rig
3. 1:11 Zach's role at Clarendon Hills
4. 1:48 A purpose-built drone vehicle
5. 3:27 What drones let police do that they couldn't before
6. 5:35 And, not or
7. 7:30 Every tool an officer carries
8. 8:48 What using drones in public safety has been like
9. 10:25 Where drones are going in the next year
10. 13:06 How to start small with drones
11. 16:25 Drone as first responder
12. 20:11 License plate readers, cameras and AI
13. 22:39 Catch me if you can
14. 23:05 What Zach is excited about next
15. 24:41 Words of wisdom
16. 26:10 Wrap

Questions answered in this episode

What makes drones valuable for small law enforcement agencies like Clarendon Hills?

Zach Finfrock says small departments do not have aircraft programs because helicopters are extremely expensive and typically reserved for large departments. The closest air support for Clarendon Hills would be state or Chicago police helicopters, which are not instantaneous. Drones bridge that gap by providing air support that is deployable immediately.

Hear it at 3:44

How does Zach Finfrock view drones compared to other law enforcement tools?

Finfrock compares drones to tools like tasers, tourniquets, and radios that officers carry. Most are not used every day, but they are critical when needed. He believes that in time every officer will probably have some kind of drone, just as every officer now carries a taser.

Hear it at 6:05

What is drone as first responder or DFR?

Zach Finfrock explains that DFR can mean autonomous drones launching from docks on buildings for large departments with FAA waivers. For smaller agencies like his, DFR means using a drone to support any call for service, coordinate resources, do overwatch, or get intel before making contact with someone, even if the flight is not autonomous.

Hear it at 10:58

How does DuPage County use shared drone projects for real time crime support?

Agencies in DuPage County that fly DJI drones share a single project in DJI FlightHub. When any agency flies, dispatch or real time crime officers can pull up the map, see live feeds, drop virtual pins for suspect locations, draw search area boxes, and coordinate drone altitudes without the pilot having to manage those tasks while flying.

Hear it at 16:44

What is Zach Finfrock's advice on starting a law enforcement drone program?

Start small and focus on training. Operators must follow state drone law, agency policy, and FAA Part 107 rules all at once in high stress situations. Finfrock recommends starting with one drone or a couple of pilots, becoming proficient, and deploying only for missions you know you can successfully complete before scaling up.

Hear it at 13:49

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 279 transcript

Law Enforcement Embraces Tech-Driven Drone Support with Zach Finfrock

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Zach Finfrock

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to the Smart Firefighting Podcast. Kevin Sofen here, where we cover all things related to the future of smart technology for first responders around the world. Please enjoy the show and let me know what you want to learn about next. Hey, all. Today, we're diving into how law enforcement is using drones to level up public safety operations. I had the chance to connect with Zach Finfrock, Sergeant at Clarendon Hills Police Department and their drone program coordinator. Zach shares insights into how drones are transforming response times, coordinating with fire and EMS, and how to start a drone program the right way. This one's packed with practical takeaways for any public safety professional looking to add a powerful tool like a drone to your toolkit. Enjoy. Well, Zach, how you doing today?

[0:55] Zach Finfrock: I'm doing great, Kevin.

[0:56] Kevin Sofen: Thank you for, I just got a nice little tour-a-day drone rig. We just flew the drone outside by the pool. And I guess for those that haven't, that weren't just with us, tell me about Zach Finfrock and your role here at Clarendon Hills.

[1:11] Zach Finfrock: So I'm a sergeant with Clarendon Hills. Clarendon Hills is a small agency. We're in DuPage County, sorry. I've been with Clarendon Hills for about 13 years now, and I am currently the drone program coordinator for our village. And that's kind of what we've been touring here today. We just went out and in our newest and latest edition is our kind of drone equipped police car and kind of a drones on patrol type of thing. And, you know, we did a little flight, we went through the process. And I think Kevin, you're really kind of seeing now how seamless this is. Yeah, he's a believer. So we certainly made that out of you today at the very least.

[1:48] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, I mean, I've had the fortune of working with Mark and Public Safety Direct and seeing all these different vehicles that can be built and within the fire service, law enforcement and EMS, the vehicle is such a core component in terms of everything you do. And everyone kind of has their own nuances of what they like, what they don't like. But what I really liked about today learning from you is this was a purpose-built drone rig that also allowed you to do other day-to-day stuff. But I'm kind of curious in your thoughts in terms of this drone rig, and you mentioned drone equipped police vehicle, how has that become, what is it in your words, and how has it become such a staple within the Clarendon Hills Police Department?

[2:28] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, I think this was, I call it a brainchild, but it was kind of like a hope and a dream to one day be able to carry everything that you need to be a drone operator in a vehicle, and the hope was that you could also do all the other things that you do on patrol. That to me always sounded like a big ask. I thought and I thought and I thought, and with the help of Public Safety Direct, I think we came up with a pretty good hybrid solution to having the equipment to be a drone operator who's on patrol and can successfully be out there and deploy for calls for service and also have all the other things that I need to do my job as, number one, a supervisor and an officer who's on the street and has taken other calls for service that have absolutely nothing to do with drones or anything else but you know still serving the public with all the other needs that they have on a daily basis but being able to kind of switch gears and you know change over to that whole pilot mentality and get this aircraft in the air when you know we need it and as

[3:27] Kevin Sofen: quickly as possible from the second I walked in we've been talking about drones this drones that but for this conversation context what are some of the use cases that drones now allow law enforcement to do that you couldn't do to 10, 20 years ago?

[3:44] Zach Finfrock: For us especially, I think one of the biggest things is, and we had kind of touched on this previously, is we don't have an aircraft program for our department and nobody around us does either because that's extremely expensive and it's typically reserved for departments that are extremely large, right? So the closest air support unit of any kind for us would be a state police or Chicago police helicopter and certainly they're busy enough doing whatever they're doing and dealing with their own things support like that is not instantaneous as it is having something that's that's with you and deployable. I entered drones into the world of policing and I think we all found that we were able to bridge that gap a little bit with these with these devices and these aircrafts and you know over the years I think we've realized that you know it's it takes a little bit of training and you know honing of a lot of these skills because you're you're taking police officers and you're switching gears a little bit and putting this pilot you know stamp on them and we're able to, you know, put something in the air that's supporting us as officers. It's helping our communities by being able to either prevent crime, coordinate the resources we're already using, or search for people who are missing and, you know, kind of bridge some of those gaps of, you know, being able to cover large areas of ground quicker than what we can do on foot and, you know, with eyes that are in a place that's much more readily available to see things that we're actually expecting to find. When I'm looking at something on the ground, it seems obvious, but when you're on the ground looking for something, you don't get the same type of view you get from the air, right? So looking down and trying to locate something and using something like a drone is invaluable when it comes to critical time and trying to locate somebody or something, especially if they're in danger. So I think that from a law enforcement standpoint, this is invaluable in a lot of cases, at least in my opinion.

[5:35] Kevin Sofen: Well, as you were talking, one phrase that I love is, and not or. You talked about wanting to have this vehicle that you could do patrol with, but also use as a dedicated drone rig. And now this way this rig is set up, it's allowing you to do both and be practical and ergonomic in that sense, which has now allowed you to deploy it to do what you normally do to serve the community. So I'm curious in your thoughts on that and not or phrase. And then I also would love to know any kind of initial success stories or wins that you've had from now with the dedicated drone rig and drone program in your department?

[6:05] Zach Finfrock: Yeah I think you nailed it with your statement. I think a lot of law enforcement is and. In our line of work there's not a lot of wars and I think the expectation is that you get the job done and you do it with the best tools and the best resources that you have available to you and drones are just one of those components. If you look at historically at law enforcement you know there were things like tasers that were never around right those came to our world, and now you have a less lethal device instead of using more force, and now that's something that every single police officer has. I think that you probably will get to a point in our careers where everybody has a drone of some sort or something that they can put in the air to support them in the way that they do their job in law enforcement because it's that critical. Is it a device that you use every day, or is it an aircraft that you're putting in the air every day? No, I don't think so, but it's critical when you need it. that's a lot of our tools. You look at a police officer and just looking at them when they're on duty, you'll see that they're carrying all kinds of things with them. Do they use any of those things every single day? Absolutely not, but they're all there for a reason and they do get used when they're needed and that's that's kind of how a lot of our job works. So the or statement is couldn't ring more true to me because it's it's or but it's also if not if it's when. And so I think that's kind of how I view drones is it's there and it will be there and it's ready.

[7:30] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, it's a tool, like, I mean, just on you right now, how many different pieces of equipment are you wearing?

[7:35] Zach Finfrock: Oh, geez, I couldn't even tell you. I never counted, to be honest with you, but.

[7:38] Kevin Sofen: Talk me through, what are the different components that you have on you that is this is just a day to day of all the different tools?

[7:44] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, so you're gonna find every police officer is gonna have a firearm. That's gonna be one of the most critical components. I can tell you that I don't use it every day. And I don't plan on it either. I carry a tourniquet, you know, there's medical things that I carry. I have a flashlight, I have my body camera mount, my taser, my handcuffs, my radio. And this is not unique to me. This is every police officer who's out there. I mean, this is common gear, and we're all carrying these things. But the one thing I can tell you that I do use every day is gonna be my radio. That's the only way I get calls. That's the only way I communicate. So I think if I was to take a tool and point one out as a daily use, radio's definitely gonna be one of them. But a lot of these tools are just here for when the time comes.

[8:23] Kevin Sofen: In an essence, just like a drone. A drone is not gonna solve all your problems be the end-all be-all. It's just another tool in the toolbox.

[8:29] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, it's another tool in your toolbox and the drone comes with great responsibility too and you know it's all about the person who's behind it and who's flying it and like any great tool it's it's only as good as how you can use it and so there's a lot of different components to making that successful but having it is going to be your first step.

[8:49] Kevin Sofen: Mm-hmm and within your experience in public safety and this may not be just within Clarendon Hills, but just in general, what's it been like using drones with it across public safety entities? So as far as working with Fire and Service, working with EMS, have you had any situations where you have any ideas about how fire police law, excuse me, fire police and EMS have kind of, can you use a drone together to kind of support each other on scene or any context on that?

[9:18] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, that's a really great point. I think that you'll find nowadays that you'll see many police departments working together, especially with their neighbors. I can speak for my own situation here in Clarendon Hills. We're located in DuPage County, and we share services all the time. We know our neighbors, our neighbors know us, and when they're in need, we're there to help them. And the same thing with us, it's a scratch your back type of mentality that doesn't stop at just police work. I think that's for the fire service as well. You know, we're here for them as much as they're here for us. We all have different roles, obviously, but we're crossing those platforms constantly. We're all working together and trying to stay on the same page. make the statement of our tools are theirs tools because I would never walk up to a fire truck and you know steal their chainsaw and you know decide that's going to be something that I need to use but I think there's plenty of tools that we have that are gonna are gonna bridge those gaps for both of us and support is you know a major component of our job and that's something that is constantly improving and we're trying to improve that so I think you're gonna see it more and more.

[10:25] Kevin Sofen: Mm-hmm. And it's March 2025. We reached outside and it's Chicago, spring, winter today, not too bad. But I'm kind of curious in your thoughts in the next three, 12, 16 months in regards to drones in particular within public safety, including not just law enforcement but also fire. Based on where we are now and where we're going, where do you see drones as far as being a tool that will continue to support public safety operations?

[10:58] Zach Finfrock: I think it's only going to get bigger from where it's at. Around here in our area, you'll find that there's a lot of people who have started drone programs. The first step is getting a drone and getting your pilots trained, getting them some of that basic knowledge. And I feel like the natural progression of that is, you know, now I have a program, I have a drone. How can I use this to the best of my abilities and then enter a vehicle that can support that? You're now loading this thing up in a purposely built vehicle that's supporting you with whatever your drone needs are. In our case, I'd like to think we have a good hybrid solution for doing our patrol work plus our drone work out of one vehicle. I think you're going to see that continue to progress as the need for drones grows and grows. terms now, the hot button of the industry is DFR, you know, drone as first responder. In my opinion, there's a kind of a multi-use meaning to that term, you'll find that a lot of departments are, some of the larger ones are going to what I call a true drone as first responder. They're receiving FAA, you know, waivers to, you know, launch from docks on buildings and respond to calls or provide support for calls autonomously. Do I see that ever happening in Clarendon Hills where I work? Probably not. We're not that type of agency. We don't have that type of size and need in our town, but I feel like Drone as First Responder still applies to me because I can use this drone as support for any type of call for service. I can put it in the air to coordinate resources, to do Overwatch. I can deploy a drone in a situation where I might just want to get eyes on somebody that in a situation that could turn violent, so maybe I can get intel previous or prior to making contact with somebody and kind of get an idea of a situation of what's going on. So to me, that's a drone as first responder, but you know, it's not autonomous, but it's still supporting this role as a law enforcement officer and, you know, giving me information that I wouldn't have otherwise had.

[13:06] Kevin Sofen: It's a tool, and it's something that we know that, again, with this tool comes great responsibility, that at the same time we can't sort of ignore and try and put these drones in Pandora's box and kind of keep them away. What would you say to someone that maybe had kind of thought about drones as something that was like more of a toy or more of something that was, hey, that's something that other departments do. What would you say that kind of how to start small and how drones are something that, again, could be a tool in your department, whether that's in the fire service looking at it just like a chainsaw or ladder, whether you're in the police department looking at it as a light or a taser typing. Again, just being a good tool that someone should consider and so the idea of starting small.

[13:49] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, I think in the world of drones, it's so vast and there's so many different components that starting small is the responsible thing to do for any agency. You wanna make sure that you have a good foundation and core built and focus on training. Here at the Clarendon Hills Police Department, we're contending with a number of different things just putting a drone in the air. We're looking at following our state law in Illinois. There's laws on how police use drones. It's different than other states. So we're following that. We're following our own agency's policy on how the drone itself is operated. And then we're also flying as a pilot under a license, a Part 107 license from the FAA. So you're talking about three different rule books, and they're all playing out through one officer operating an aircraft in a high-stress situation and trying to mitigate whatever it is the situation that they're dealing with is, and they're contending with all those things at once, so that can be a lot. That's not something you just pick up overnight, and you don't just take on this responsibility of putting something in the air and bringing it back home safely, and then also achieving the tasks that you set out to do just with a couple of test flights. The responsibility, I think, for law enforcement is that we're providing the correct training and starting small with maybe starting off with one drone or just a couple of pilots and becoming proficient, not biting off more than you can chew, deploying for events that you know that you can successfully fly the mission for. There's a lot of obstacles out in the world. There's a lot of things in the air. Everybody's heard of trees. They don't go away. probably your biggest obstacle as a drone operator because it's a you know this thing out in the world with a lot of little fingers on it that's just looking to grab your drone and put it to the ground so I think starting off small and working your way up to and growing your program and scaling it to your own kind of the way that you feel comfortable with is the best thing that any agency can do and I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all for everybody on that I think you have to take that in stride and decide for yourselves how you're going to use it.

[15:56] Kevin Sofen: And learn and call someone like Zach to talk through all the options.

[15:59] Zach Finfrock: Well, I don't know it all, that's for sure. But I am looking to learn just like everybody else is. And the one thing I've also learned about law enforcement is that learning never stops. And if you're looking for a job that you want to kind of stay stagnant, this is not the job for you. Because every day I'm learning something new from either somebody else or something that we train on. And it's a constant, and that's a good thing. We should all be embracing that.

[16:25] Kevin Sofen: And earlier you mentioned the term DFR, drone as a first responder. Another hot topic I've heard, in law enforcement in particular, and of course this is a wide range of conversations, but it's the RTC, Real Time Crime Center. In your words, what is a real time crime center? Is that something that you've seen, or kind of what does that mean in an operational context?

[16:44] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, that's a great topic, and as you said, very hot topic right now, and certainly a hot topic in the area that I work. Real-time crime, I think is, in my mind, the way I see it is a support system that's out there to enhance the way that we do our jobs already. So you look at, take a typical call where maybe you have a, let's just call it a basic traffic stop where a subject flees. You may have an officer who made a traffic stop, who's maybe in pursuit of a subject on foot, and now what we're looking for is support for that. Real-time crime can support you with cameras, they can support incoming officers who may be from other jurisdictions because they're bridging the gap over different radio channels or they're just helping them with the knowledge of the area or you know the geographic location of where they're at. I think real-time crime is also a preventative measure. I think it's somebody who's out there running a center that's focusing on things like license plate recognition, live feeds from you know surveillance cameras that are out there and monitoring those things and helping steer law enforcement to the appropriate places at the right time. That looks different for every agency too. And you know, I think we've been talking about drones a lot here. I think drones kind of falls into real-time crime as well, because that's another way to support whatever the endeavors are that the law enforcement agencies are currently working with. Something that I like that we're doing that's kind of new as far as real-time crime is a lot of the agencies in this area fly with DJI products. And one of the beautiful things about DJI products is that there's a flight hub. And flight hub is amazing for drones because not only can I use it for my own drone on my own flight hub, but I can create projects and use multiple drones from different places all at the same time. And I don't have to be from that agency or be working with them, but we can all come together in this flight hub and work on a single project or whatever it is that we're out there for, and we don't even have to be connected in any way. The way we use that in DuPage County is we currently share a project amongst all the agencies who are willing to participate with drones. And when we fly for any reason, we fly in that project. And what it allows is live feeds to be started by a dispatch center if they so desire. there's a real-time crime officer who's working in one of those departments they can pull up that map. They're able to drop virtual pins for us for locations of maybe where a suspect was or maybe even just a location of the where the call originated. They can draw boxes around search areas. They can do all these things for us as pilots that we would otherwise be tasked with doing on our own, but they can support us by without us having to do it while we're flying and working, you know, doing all the other things that we're doing. So I think that's a great use of it And now also as a drone pilot, I'm sharing that information through FlightHub and I can see the location of other drones. I can coordinate, you know, altitudes and other things that I'm concerned about when I'm flying so that we're not covering the same ground or that we're not flying, you know, too close to each other and not accomplishing enough at the time, whatever that the situation is that we're working with. So I think there's a lot of... benefits to those things and as far as real-time crime goes I see this as a component that you know we're kind of kicking off right now we're starting to share these things and I hope to see it be more successful in the future.

[20:11] Kevin Sofen: One thing you when you were talking about RTC one example being a license plate recognition and that's been something that's a camera that's seeing numbers and letters and running it through some type of processing to then detect it and then relate it and that's sort of a common thing that's been going on for quite some time. But it also makes me think about just the idea of cameras that are kind of passively watching, running through certain types of algorithms. Some might say yes, calling it through some type of AI where you're ultimately or machine learning, depending on the scope of it of like, how this information is being synthesized, and then turned around and giving you information, new information to make a new insight. I'm curious in terms of this, the other Pandora's box of this idea of artificial intelligence. What's your thoughts on AI within law enforcement right now? And are there any sort of examples or use cases that you've seen of how you've been exposed to it or see value of it?

[21:04] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. AI is new-ish, I guess, is the way I look at it. And I think it's making its way into the law enforcement community. I think there's a lot to be honed and kind of structured. The other big component of that is, you know, how does the general public view that? How do they view the use of that by law enforcement? And a lot of our job is primarily about our communities and the people that are in it. And I would never want to do something that caused them to think of us in the wrong way or the wrong light. However, we'd be remiss to not say to ourselves that AI has power that could be harnessed and used for, you know, harnessing the criminal aspect of a lot of things in this world. I think maybe license plate recognition might be a kind of a tip of that iceberg. Will there come a day where there's a real big brother out there or anything? I don't know. I don't have that answer for you right now and I think that anything's possible. We certainly have made a lot of great leaps in technology and you know AI is one of those big leaps. You look at something like chat GPT and all those things that are out there that are you know bridging a lot of those gaps and I think that if the world continues to embrace it, we'll be embracing it as well. I think that's kind of a trend with law enforcement is that whatever tech is out there is as much a part of crime as it's a part of all the good things and you know we can't overlook the fact that it's something that's in the world and that it's going to be a contender one way or another for us.

[22:39] Kevin Sofen: It reminds me of the movie Catch Me If You Can. I mean if as much as the bad guys are using stuff then it's this constant cat and mouse game between the people bad stuff with it to the law enforcement trying to make sure that they can prevent the bad from happening.

[22:56] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, you could be more correct. That's the game.

[22:59] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, it's an endless battle throughout humanity.

[23:02] Zach Finfrock: Yeah, that's why we're employed. That's why I still have this job.

[23:05] Kevin Sofen: So we covered, I mean, a range of things from drones, RTC, DFR, AI. I'm curious, and we did talk, I asked you kind of about this from drones earlier, but to rephrase, over the next one to two years, what's something that you're really excited about that you think that will really help create efficiencies and be something that will support law enforcement and public safety as a whole?

[23:28] Zach Finfrock: I think that technology as a whole is our friend and we should be embracing that in all the forms that we can as long as it's safe and it's reputable. I think that we need to, as law enforcement officers, make sure that we're always on the cutting edge of that because if it passes us up there we may be missing out and all the things that we've talked about today I think are just components of you know the emerging trends and the growing aspects of technology and I think that we're doing our best to embrace those things and fit them into you know the way our job works and helping us be more successful at our job I think it's gonna get to the point where the expectation is that we have those things and we're using them and we're using them successfully, I think that it would not be a stretch for our community members to say that this is what they want to support them. They want to feel the safest they can, and our job is to kind of provide that safety by whatever means we have available to us. So I think we just need to continue embracing.

[24:31] Kevin Sofen: Well said, Zach. Some of the good insights from someone that normally is working with the fire service who continues to give me some insights to all the world of law enforcement, so thank you. curious kind of a final thought of and I didn't prep you from this before but any sort of quote or words of wisdom or kind of like life motto that you live by or that you know is relevant to the work that you do that you can share with us.

[24:55] Zach Finfrock: Oh that's a great question let me think about this for a second. I'm not typically one for words of inspiration if you will but you'll hear a lot of different terms thrown around in law enforcement a lot of different acronyms One of the things that I used to hear a lot was, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I used to think that was true, and I've changed my mind on that over the years of working in this job. I think that if it's not broke, don't fix it. But if it's new, don't forget about it, because I think we have a lot to learn and we have a lot that we could embrace. Part of being better at what we do is learning about those things. If you want to know something about any police officer, I can tell you right now is that they're not good with changes. If you were to take away a police officer's squad car for his shift, if it were to go down or have to have maintenance, you're ending their world if they have to get into a different vehicle because it's not set up the way they usually use it or the equipment may not be in the same position that it was. We struggle with that sometimes, but I think we need to continually look at the new things that are out there and make sure that we're harnessing those things if they if they fit for what our communities want.

[26:10] Kevin Sofen: Man, well said, Zach. I love that. Well, again, thank you so much for sharing all your insights and educating me on all things law enforcement and drone operations today. And I look forward to continue to stay in touch. And so the next time we meet.

[26:23] Zach Finfrock: Thank you, Kevin. It's been a pleasure. Appreciate it.

[26:29] Kevin Sofen: Thanks for joining another episode of the Smart Firefighting Podcast. We hope you learned something today. and if so please consider leaving us a review or a comment so we can keep creating the best content for you. Have a great day and thanks for all that you do for public safety.