Smart Firefighting Podcast

Episode 277: Space-Based Forest Fire Monitoring with OroraTech with Thomas Grübler

Published

Guests: Thomas Grübler

Topics: Wildfire, Data & CAD

Episode notes

How is forest fire monitoring changing for the better?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

How space-based technology is changing forest fire monitoring

How OroraTech 's shoebox-sized satellites provide real-time insights for better decision-making in wildfire response

How wildfire analytics, like fire-weighted power, help incident commanders understand fire behavior

Hear from Thomas Grübler , Co-founder, previous Chief Strategy Officer, and current CEO of OroraTech .

Thomas introduces their innovative space-based technology for forest fire monitoring. OroraTech uses a combination of data from public satellite sources and their own shoebox-sized satellites to provide continuous fire observations with high image quality. This data enables incident commanders to make better decisions by offering insights into fire perimeters, growth patterns, and fire types, whether canopy or ground fires.

Thomas emphasizes the importance of wildfire analytics and the need for ongoing innovation in the field of firefighting. He also credits XPRIZE for helping raise awareness and supporting demonstrations of OroraTech's capabilities. Looking ahead, Thomas is excited about the launch of a new fleet of satellites and sees promising opportunities for profitability in the space industry. He invites fire chiefs, fire communities, and corporations to explore partnerships with OroraTech.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share!

Episode Resources:

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Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

  1. 0:00 Intro from the IFE booth at AFAC 2024
  2. 0:50 Thomas Grübler joins
  3. 1:14 Why OroraTech is at AFAC, and the XPRIZE
  4. 2:36 What OroraTech does
  5. 3:23 Shoebox-sized satellites
  6. 4:16 Launching with SpaceX, like checking a bag
  7. 4:47 16 satellites and the late afternoon orbit
  8. 5:34 What it means for an incident commander
  9. 7:27 Good fire, bad fire and limited resources
  10. 8:36 The XPRIZE and the cost of doing nothing
  11. 10:34 How fire agencies and partners can get involved
  12. 11:34 What Thomas is most excited about
  13. 12:37 Wrap

Questions answered in this episode

What does OroraTech do for wildfire monitoring?

Thomas Grübler says OroraTech provides space-based forest fire monitoring using shoebox-sized satellites and software that combines data from 25 public satellite sources. The system provides fire hotspot detection with high confidence, extra indicators and data layers to help fire agencies plan incident response and triage.

Hear it at 2:43

How big are OroraTech's satellites and why does size matter?

Thomas Grübler explains their satellites are the size of a shoebox, much smaller than traditional car or truck-sized satellites. The smaller size allows them to produce and launch more satellites for higher revisit rates and continuous observation, while achieving better image quality than what is currently available.

Hear it at 3:31

How does fire rate of power help distinguish good fires from bad fires?

Thomas Grübler says fire rate of power tells you how much is burning and whether it is a canopy fire or ground fire. Ground fire is mostly good fire, while canopy fire is always uncontrollable, so understanding these parameters helps decide which fires to fight.

Hear it at 8:03

What was the last major innovation in firefighting before space-based monitoring?

Thomas Grübler says water bombing about 60 years ago was probably the last big innovation in firefighting. Since then, most innovations have been incremental, which is why there are often no budgets for modern solutions like space-based monitoring.

Hear it at 8:46

What launch schedule does OroraTech have planned?

Thomas Grübler says they plan to launch eight satellites in the first quarter of next year and eight more at the end of next year. The first eight will be on a late afternoon orbit, taking pictures at about five to six p.m. when most fires ignite, and again in early morning for next-day planning.

Hear it at 4:50

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 277 transcript

Space-Based Forest Fire Monitoring with OroraTech with Thomas Grübler

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Thomas Grübler

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a mini Smart Firefighting podcast series, recorded live at the Institute of Fire Engineers booth during the 2024 AFAC Show Down Under in Sydney, Australia. Throughout these conversations, we dive into critical issues like fire safety, emerging technologies, diversity in the fire service, and innovative solutions for emergency response. with these fascinating insights from leaders around the world on how we can build a safer and more resilient future. Thomas Grübler, co-founder of OroraTech, shares how their space-based technology is changing forest fire monitoring. He explains how their shoebox-sized satellites provide real-time data on fire behavior and explores partnerships with fire agencies and corporations. So sitting alongside Thomas Grübler at AFAC. Thomas, how you doing?

[0:54] Thomas Grübler: Hi, Kevin. Doing fine.

[0:56] Kevin Sofen: I'm doing well. I'm sitting here in my little podcast hut. I've got Tim Tams, I've got an OroraTech water bottle now, and surrounded by just, I guess a bunch of Tim Tams and swag, so.

[1:08] Thomas Grübler: Yeah, it's bring your own bottle at the conference. So we thought we help all of you.

[1:12] Kevin Sofen: I appreciate that. Thank you. So what brings you to AFAC? Why are you here?

[1:16] Thomas Grübler: So, I think it's probably most important, fire forest, fire emergency services is this conference in Australia or Asia. And we are here with a booth actually, a big booth this year, that's the second time we're here. We have many customers in Australia, so it's important to meet them again, also learn from them. Also, for me personally, there was another reason to come to Australia because we're a part of the XPRIZE, and XPRIZE at the Team Summit last week in Melbourne, and now I'm here in Sydney. Very awesome here.

[1:47] Kevin Sofen: That's awesome. Well, to dive in, let's do a first on XPRIZE. So you're part of Track A or Track B?

[1:53] Thomas Grübler: It's Track A, the space-based forest detection.

[1:56] Kevin Sofen: Okay, and how is the sessions and how are the time in Melbourne?

[2:00] Thomas Grübler: Super interesting. So Melbourne is a nice city in Israel. It was the first time. But also very interesting to learn about, for example, from Jay, a former US smoke jumper, how they actually operate in the field. So there's always something new coming up. Although we are active all over the world, they're always learning new stuff. And especially for me as the founder, it's super interesting.

[2:25] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. I mean, kudos to the XPRIZE in terms of just being this moonshot type focus, but trying to turn it into real practical solutions that can benefit first responders and the community on the ground. And I think that kind of leads into more about your company in your tech. Tell me sort of what you do and what's the technology and how does it work?

[2:43] Thomas Grübler: So we provide a space-based forest fire, bushfire monitoring. That's actually a two-fold company. So we have a software solution, which actually provides us this fire hotspots derived from, at the moment, 25 different public satellite sources with a very high confidence level with extra indicators, extra data layers, and so on, really actionable insights that where our customers rely on it and use it to do a triage, to do, to plan their incident response and so on. And because space-based data is not continuous, we also fill up the data with our own satellites now.

[3:23] Kevin Sofen: So you mentioned that earlier that you already have, is it two satellites?

[3:27] Thomas Grübler: Yeah.

[3:28] Kevin Sofen: So where did you make those and where did you launch them?

[3:31] Thomas Grübler: We made them in our office actually. Very important to, like, now I explain a bit about satellites. Our satellites are the size of a shoebox. So, all the other satellites out there, you know, which are currently used for fire monitoring at the size of a car or a truck, and of course, at this size, you can't produce a lot of them. You can't use this high revisit rate, which is needed in the emergency situations. And as we are shrinking the size, we were able to improve with it. We fit it in a shoebox size satellite and even get the higher image quality out of it than what's out there at the moment. And with this, we can launch a lot of them and fill out the gaps and provide continuous via observation.

[4:16] Kevin Sofen: And how did you launch them, if you can tell me? Where did you launch them?

[4:20] Thomas Grübler: Yeah, we launched the first two, we are launching with SpaceX. And also next year, we have booked a SpaceX launch and the other launch is not yet fixed. But the good thing is, because it's a CubeSat, it's like a standardized satellite size, we can just book it's just like a train ticket or a flight ticket and you can go to Virgin and to Qantas.

[4:41] Kevin Sofen: You're checking a bag basically, you know, just add an extra bag, put it on, put it up to space.

[4:46] Thomas Grübler: Exactly.

[4:47] Kevin Sofen: Okay, so you mentioned that there were 16 satellites going out next.

[4:50] Thomas Grübler: Yeah, eight in Q1 next year, eight at the end of next year. And the one in Q1, they are going on a late afternoon orbit, which means like they will take a picture, map all fire parameters all over the globe at about five to six p.m. in the afternoon, depending on the location. And this is exactly the time where most of the fires ignited. So we get very good overview map. We picture the fires at the peak of the burning activity. We get the same picture, the same map in the early morning, also at five to six a.m. in the morning. And then it's also, again, very helpful for the incident planning on the next day.

[5:34] Kevin Sofen: And then now tell me more about, and that's amazing, so, but then the satellites are up there, they're providing that kind of fidelity and that kind of picture. What does that mean for me? If I'm an incident commander and if I am on the fire ground within Australia in the bushfire or in Colorado in the wildfire, how is this level of fidelity and in the way that you are creating data helping me make better decisions?

[5:58] Thomas Grübler: So understanding the fire parameter is very important to understand the future of the fire growth. For example, we did a fire spread simulation in Greece with the fire near Marathon. The fire spread simulation was showing that the fire will hit the city of Athens within a day. But despite, yeah, the simulation isn't rolled out that far yet, that operational yet. But the simulation already showed that the fire will hit an immersive size and the incident responders or the operation managers could have asked for emergency help from other European cities already earlier, because they know it will get that large. And our brand area product then also showed that the simulation and the overlap was exactly matching. So the more accurate the information you have at the moment, the better the better the simulation will be, the better the forecast will be, and the better you, and the more effectively you can plan your response. And imagine a extreme fire season like last year in Canada, when you had in Quebec at two to 300 concurrent fires ongoing, you can't fight every fire. You need to decide which fires you are fighting, which fires you are letting burn. I mean, there's also a good fire, you want to let burn, that's the other part we can talk about, but the more data you have, the better you can decide and the better you can still protect cities or infrastructure.

[7:27] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, and so you mentioned earlier the continuous observation, but then also then the dynamic of some good fire, whether it's prescribed burns or whether it's, you know, some fires that are, you know, if it's in the somewhat contained area, not all fire is bad fire. How are you and how's the OroraTech or OroraTech, how is it helping, again, diving into this more of creating that kind of insights and understanding which fires are the good fires, which fires are the bad fires. And there's limited resources. So how to figure out how to deploy those resources effectively.

[8:03] Thomas Grübler: So it all comes down to, we could call it wildfire analytics, which actually means fire rate of power. The fire rate of power tells you the, ah, how much is burning. You can actually derive, is it a canopy which is already burning, or is it just a ground fire? Ground fire is mostly a good fire. Canopy is always uncontrollable with fire. And with the spread rate, with where you know when the fire is going in a specific direction, you can then derive how to react.

[8:35] Kevin Sofen: Got it. And then within the XPRIZE ecosystem, how has that been something that's been helpful? And, you know, what's been your experience at XPRIZE and also what's next with XPRIZE?

[8:46] Thomas Grübler: XPRIZE is a very interesting competition. First of all, when I was very young, I already envisioned the XPRIZE with the virtual launch and with the, with the Lunar XPRIZE, and now I'm very happy to be part of it. I don't think, so what I'm very happy with the XPRIZE is what we're doing is a very modern solution to a very traditional problem. And the last innovation happened in firefighting was probably 60 years ago when it started with water bombing. It was the last big innovation. And since then, there were most incremental innovations. And this also means that there are, for example, no budgets for a new innovation like we're doing, because you need to invest more in preparedness and less in the actual operations if you do it. So XPRIZE helps a lot to do demonstrations, to do, to talk with the right people, to talk with fire chiefs, to talk with the government, bring awareness to the Congress, because at the end, I mean, it helps them, the fire agencies. The overworld will save money with this. technology, which is invented by us and others at the XPRIZE. The US alone is losing a hundred billion a year on additional health costs due to the smoke, 600 billion of housing, of residential housing is at wildfire risk. You heard that utilities companies like BGE went bankrupt, others are paying high penalties all the time. So at the end, everything you're doing in preparedness is probably cheaper than the aftermath. XPRIZE helps us a lot to demonstrate the capabilities.

[10:34] Kevin Sofen: Well, I'm sure excited to see it go into some of the field testing stages. I know that's coming up in the near future between Track A and Track B and some meeting in Salt Lake City, which will probably be with a post after that. But that's all awesome and great stuff to hear. And then I guess I'm also kind of interested in kind of ways that maybe other companies or first responders can get involved. I mean, obviously if there's a fire department that's and insights, you know, they could become a customer in some capacity, but what are you looking for? You know, and how can people get involved, whether it's from tech partnership or whether it's, you know, alignment with some type of fire agency? How can people approach that?

[11:13] Thomas Grübler: So first of all, to get involved, just reach out to me. I think you will link my name in the comments, below the podcast. And yeah, we're looking for corporations in all directions. So for FireG, for Fire communities, we want, if you want to try it, if you have ideas, just reach out.

[11:33] Kevin Sofen: That's great. And final thing is what are you most excited about with what you're working on? I mean, you mentioned you've got 16 satellites going up, so that's pretty exciting. But within where this technology is going and earth observation for wildfire, what's something that you're like when you're going to sleep at night, you're just like dreaming about this? What are you most excited about?

[11:53] Thomas Grübler: It's really about what we're launching next year, because it's the first time that we're launching a fleet of satellite and only a single one, and we already know from customers that they told us, if this works, we need to contract less planes, less planes for fire observations, for example, and this is always a good sign. And the data will have several different use cases besides fire. So we are really targeting to be a profitable company with this data. And that makes me, as a founder, very, it gets my heart warm when I see this is the time where we have a chance to be a profitable space company out there in the sector, which is actually affecting the world.

[12:36] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. Well, I've been, I've seen OroraTech pop up all over the place and it was a truly serendipitous and a pleasure to be able to meet you and Konstantin, right?

[12:46] Thomas Grübler: Yeah, Konstantin.

[12:47] Kevin Sofen: Konstantin, cool.

[12:48] Thomas Grübler: Yeah.

[12:49] Kevin Sofen: Well, you're obviously onto something and you got some good traction. So stick with it, keep up the good work, and appreciate everything you're doing.

[12:55] Thomas Grübler: Thank you.

[12:56] Kevin Sofen: Look forward to staying in touch. Thanks for listening to this episode recorded alongside the Institute of Fire Engineers during the AFAC Show. If you found value in the conversation or learned something new, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your thoughts, and let's keep the discussion going on how we can shape the future of smart firefighting.