Episode 276: Utilizing Technology in Fire Service Training with Steve Kaiser

Episode notes

Here’s why you gotta be more curious:

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

The value of training in the fire service

How technology like virtual reality and gas props is transforming fire service training

How the Institution of Fire Engineers bridges the gap between industry professionals and firefighters

Hear from Steve Kaiser from Fire and Rescue Victoria.

Steve shares his experiences at the Fire Department Instructor's Conference (FDIC) in the United States, along with insights into the training facilities in Chicago and Melbourne. The conversation emphasizes the critical role of training in the fire service, helping firefighters refine their skills and improve decision-making under pressure.

Steve highlights the use of innovative technologies like gas props and virtual reality to enhance training, making it safer and more effective. The discussion also touches on the Institution of Fire Engineers' role in connecting industry professionals, engineers, and firefighters, fostering collaboration and knowledge sharing. Steve concludes by emphasizing the importance of curiosity in continuous learning and growth within the fire service.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share!

Episode Resources:

AFAC25 Conference

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn

Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro from the IFE booth at AFAC 2024
2. 0:58 Steve Kaiser joins
3. 1:20 FDIC, the Super Bowl of fire training
4. 3:06 Visiting the Chicago Fire Department
5. 4:20 The Craigieburn Training Academy
6. 5:07 Structural training
7. 5:44 What training means
8. 6:22 Seeing it before you do it
9. 7:08 Gas props and new training tools
10. 8:20 Virtual reality training
11. 10:22 More sets and reps
12. 11:20 Consistency and confidence on the fireground
13. 12:06 What the Institution of Fire Engineers does
14. 13:48 Fire engineers at the training academy
15. 14:36 Stay curious
16. 15:29 Wrap

Questions answered in this episode

What is the focus of Steve Kaiser's training department at Fire and Rescue Victoria?

Steve Kaiser says the structural or tactical department's key focus is compartment fire behavior training, which covers the fire science behind extreme fire behaviors and teaches participants how to use that knowledge in tactics to overcome them, from deploying hose to water application and putting the fire out.

Hear it at 5:16

How does Australia use gas props in firefighter training?

Steve Kaiser says Australia uses gas or propane props to do training in a safe, clean environment where you can do sets and reps all day to improve skills, then try it in a dirty environment before the fireground. An instructor has to contextualize that environment for trainees.

Hear it at 7:31

How does Steve Kaiser see virtual reality helping fire service training?

He is excited about VR helping incident controllers train on decision making without putting anyone at risk. They can do training scenarios at the station or office instead of a big training ground, and VR lets them pause, discuss decisions, and try again, which is useful for high-risk, low-frequency environments.

Hear it at 8:24

What does Steve Kaiser say the Institute of Fire Engineers does?

Steve Kaiser describes it as a link between industry professionals, engineers and the scientific world, especially in building construction and innovation, and firefighters themselves. He says that link gives him access to people and spaces he would not normally have, helping both sides see each other's world.

Hear it at 12:40

What is Steve Kaiser's advice for firefighters who want to improve?

Stay curious. He says years ago he thought he knew everything, but becoming an instructor and meeting scientific people opened up whole new avenues. If he had not asked questions and stayed curious, he would not know what he knows today.

Hear it at 14:51

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 276 transcript

Utilizing Technology in Fire Service Training with Steve Kaiser

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Steve Kaiser

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a mini Smart Firefighting podcast series, recorded live at the Institute of Fire Engineers booth during the 2024 AFAC Show Down Under in Sydney, Australia. Throughout these conversations, we dive into critical issues like fire safety, emerging technologies, diversity in the fire service, and innovative solutions for emergency response. We would use fascinating insights from leaders around the world on how we can build a safer and more resilient future. Steve Kaiser, a training officer at Fire and Rescue Victoria, discusses the importance of training and technology in the fire service. He highlights the use of virtual reality and gas props in training and emphasizes the role of the Institute of Fire Engineers in fostering collaboration between firefighters and industry professionals. It's officially podcast number 10 of AFAC sitting alongside Steve Kaiser with Fire & Rescue Victoria. Steve, how you doing?

[0:59] Steve Kaiser: I'm great. How are you?

[1:01] Kevin Sofen: I'm doing quite well.

[1:02] Steve Kaiser: It's a great day to be in Sydney. Yeah, actually funny thing is this is the first time I've ever been to Sydney.

[1:06] Kevin Sofen: Really?

[1:07] Steve Kaiser: Yeah.

[1:08] Kevin Sofen: And this is my first time to Sydney too.

[1:09] Steve Kaiser: There you go. Just a couple of guys hanging out in Sydney.

[1:11] Kevin Sofen: Just a couple of dudes being guys. Yeah. I mean, it took me about 16 hours, excuse me, 20 hours of flights, 29 hours door to door to get here. how that feels. What about you?

[1:22] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, two hours.

[1:23] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, but you were stateside this year.

[1:26] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to go to Fire Department Instructors Conference, FDIC, last few years, and it's a completely different world in America. Everything's a little bit bigger, a little bit different, and that conference is huge. How was FDIC for you? Tiring. I wish I had more of me to speak to as many people as I could, but it's fantastic. I really love how friendly everyone was over there. You could speak to anybody about anything and it was great and everyone's there for the same reason just to learn and get better. It's good.

[1:59] Kevin Sofen: It truly is like a Super Bowl of firefighting technology and firefighter training just people in the room and I know within some of the industry partners back here I feel like it's sometimes the year is sort of the life before FDIC and life after FDIC with all the planning that goes into it.

[2:14] Steve Kaiser: Yeah Absolutely, and that was the biggest one, I think.

[2:17] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, I mean, I know it's, you know, COVID was kind of through a monkey wrench in everyone's plans, but it's a remarkable show. And actually, I know this next year, the day before the official show starts on the Wednesday, there's going to be a focus tech symposium that's going to be about four hours of classroom dialogue, kind of panels and back and forth dialogue between participants, and then four hours in the field of deploying technologies like common operating picture, wearables, communication devices and drones, and really seeing it, not just talking about it on the whiteboard, but actually seeing it in practicality.

[2:51] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, there's so much training opportunities that happen over there. It's just, it's mind blowing. You could train into any little facet that you want on fire service, whether it be technology or hands-on training or leadership even. There's just so much over there. Yeah.

[3:06] Kevin Sofen: And then, so you, after you, were in Indy, you made your way up north to my hometown of Chicago.

[3:12] Steve Kaiser: Yes. We went to Chicago, myself and a few colleagues, and we got the Royal Treatment by Chicago Fire Department, which was fantastic. Got to check out a few fire stations, the training college there, even get a ride on the fireboat up and down the river. I'm not sure what the river's name is. It runs up through the middle of the city.

[3:31] Kevin Sofen: It's called the Chicago River. There you go. Really clever.

[3:33] Steve Kaiser: There you go. That's, that was a stumper.

[3:35] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. I was like, wait, I live there. So what did you learn? What was maybe something that an insight that you developed from spending time in the Chicago fire department?

[3:45] Steve Kaiser: Really was impressed by how the training college was ran. The discipline from the recruits was amazing to see how devoted they were at not just learning, they were just really enthusiastic about being there. They would get their hands dirty quite often. I think that they were there. They were cleaning everything on site. They were out there scrubbing the floors, all the banisters were being wiped down, every hose was being cleaned, and I really took a lot from that, being a trainer myself, to see what we could bring back from that attitude in training.

[4:20] Kevin Sofen: Well, speaking of training facilities, I had the fortune of going to the New South Wales training facility, the one that was built a couple years ago, and really was blown away. But I also, I was talking with some Melbourne firefighters the other day, and I hear Melbourne has quite the training facility as well.

[4:35] Steve Kaiser: Yes, we have Craigieburn Training Academy, which opened about 10 years ago. It's a very unique facility. We have a lot of capability to train in almost all hazards and at all ranks, which is amazing capacity to have for fire service, to be able to do what you need to get done in that training environment at one facility. It's not our only facility, but it's, it's very useful for us, especially when it comes to hot fire training, recruit fire training, promotions, things like that.

[5:07] Kevin Sofen: So all this talk of training, you must be a trainer.

[5:10] Steve Kaiser: Yep, how'd you guess?

[5:12] Kevin Sofen: I don't know, just got to pull out thin air. But it's structural training.

[5:16] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, so we have a structural department or tactical department. And our key focus is on compartment fire behavior training. So this is like the fire science behind extreme fire behaviors. And then we also expand on that where we teach participants how to use the knowledge that we just taught them in fire science and the tactics to overcome them. So everything from deploying hose to managing hose to water application on the fire, turning up, putting it out.

[5:44] Kevin Sofen: And then I'd love to know more about kind of your training methodology. I think this is sort of a cliche question, but like, what does training mean to you?

[5:51] Steve Kaiser: I think training is the key for an emergency service. And I don't think emergency services really do as much as they can. Training's a hard culture to do. You say training to a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people, and they go, oh, I don't know, I've done that, don't need to do that again. But training, if you learn the basics and you master the basics and you understand the knowledge and you keep pushing yourself, it just makes you a better, safer firefighter on the fire ground.

[6:22] Kevin Sofen: And there was some conversation at the training academy yesterday of just the importance of seeing and experiencing something before you do it and how that ties into your decision making, where if you're experiencing something for the first time, it's, it's hard to know if you're making the right or wrong decision.

[6:37] Steve Kaiser: Well, yeah, absolutely. Like if you go to a fire incident, and it's the first time you've seen a structure fire, for example, and it's the first time you're going to go into the structure and attempt to put it out, and you've never trained for that, or you've never seen those realistic conditions before, you're starting from zero, and that the risk and the danger that you have to you is quite high. So to reduce that risk, you have to have training. You have to have a comfortability to that environment and an understanding on how to combat that environment. And that's where we fit in.

[7:08] Kevin Sofen: And within the training ecosystem that you're in, I mean, seeing yesterday, there was a lot of props. There were a lot of different kind of stations and different exercises. And within training, are there any new training tools or training technologies that have come on scene in the last couple years? Or are there any kind of new technologies that you're looking at from a training perspective that you're excited about?

[7:31] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, we're always trying to get the most out of our equipment as best as we can. What we really do well in Australia is the utilisation of gas props or propane props where we can do training in a safe, clean environment. It's not the be all, you still need to do some training in a hot, dirty environment to get that realism. But the clean environments, you can do sets and reps all day, sets and reps. Repetitions really help you with your skills, and then you can try it in a dirty environment before you go out into the fireground and try it out there. So in Australia, we're really good at getting high-tech props, what we call, that keep you safe in a training environment, but you still learn. But it takes an instructor to be able to contextualize that environment for you before you throw somebody in there, you know?

[8:20] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. What about virtual reality training? Is that something that you're looking at?

[8:24] Steve Kaiser: that is big technology. I'm not a huge expert on the virtual technology other than just playing with it, you know, with my kids. But there are some really exciting programs out there that both in America and Australia alike that show a really safe way to approach fires. What I'm really excited about with virtual reality is how it can help decision making and your incident controllers training without putting anyone at risk. They can sit back like we are now and just do a training scenario and work on their decision-making without having to set up a big prop or go to a big training ground, they can do it at the station. They can do it in their office. That availability and access to training is, it's just another tool for us. You can't always get to a big training ground and do training. Yeah. Sometimes you have to go out to the stations and you can't light buyers at a station. As much as we probably want to, you know, VR is the way to go.

[9:23] Kevin Sofen: to go. Especially when trying to train on some of those high-risk, low-frequency scenarios, whether it's like a electrical car fire inside of a tunnel or a bleve fire. You've got to make a decision now

[9:34] Steve Kaiser: and you can't pause. You can't stop when you're doing it for real training. Whereas VR, you can make a decision and you can pause and you then discuss it and think, okay, maybe we're going to do this that aligns with our doctrine. And then you can press play again and you can go through it and you go well that didn't work what else can we do that's the beautiful thing about having a simulator i guess whereas if we light a fire at the training Once the fire's lit, it's lit. We have to keep going. There's no pausing the fire. That training scenario, that revolution has to continue. It's got a time limit. VR, you've got all the time you need. You can stop it, you can go faster, you can go slower, and it just helps people with decision-makings in those high-consequence, low-risk environments. Oh, sorry, high-risk, low-frequency environments.

[10:22] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, or even the high-frequency, low-risk, I mean, some of the everyday mundane stuff, I think it all kind of comes back to more sets and reps is more better.

[10:32] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, absolutely. Well, no one really wants to come to work and get worse at what they do. No one goes, you know what, today I'm going to be really bad at what I do. Everyone wants to be better. And the only way you can be better at anything is to practice it. Practice, you know, the old adage, practice makes perfect. I'd like to twist it and make it to practice makes consistent. Because consistency on a fire ground gives an incident controller so much more repertoire to choose from when he says.

[10:59] Kevin Sofen: It gives you confidence, it gives you the belief that, again, not necessarily being perfect, but like you said, if you're consistent in being the best you can be and you're doing that as a team, you as an incident commander and you as an individual unit within the brigade can feel pretty confident that whatever challenges are thrown your way, that if you're trained and you stick to your training, that you can handle any situation.

[11:20] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, imagine being an incident controller and you have a task. You've got a person presenting at the second story window, and you've got to pick someone from your crew to put a ladder up. Now, if you know someone can do it within one minute and can do it really well, but they're not very consistent at it, they might actually fail, as opposed to someone who can do it in two minutes, but they're consistent, you know, they're going to do it every time at two minutes. Now, as an instant control, you have someone to choose. So that's called just knowing your spread a little bit. Knowing who your crew is, and how much training they've done, and how consistent they are at executing that task. They may not be the fastest, but you know they're going to get it done, and you know what limit they're going to be.

[12:06] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, full set. And well, we're here in Sydney, like we mentioned at the beginning of the pod, but also we're sitting under this Institute of Fire Engineers booth, this little hut for every podcast. Actually, I'm gifted one Tim Tam, so you know, you get one as well.

[12:21] Steve Kaiser: Oh, wow.

[12:22] Kevin Sofen: So yeah, we got all the Tim Tams here. It's fully embracing Aussie culture. But the Institute of Fire Engineers, I hadn't talked to you before, but in your words, what is the Institute of Fire Engineers and why is it an organization that is important and relevant within the Global Fire Service?

[12:40] Steve Kaiser: I think it's a link. I'm pretty new to the organization in the IFE organized space. I think it's a link between the industry professionals the engineers and the scientific world, especially in building construction and innovation, to the firefighters themselves. That link is not always there. You have building being put up, you have fire engineers putting in the fire service safety components, and then you have someone like me teaching fire dynamics in buildings, and to have that link between someone who teaches fire dynamics and fire behaviour and understanding how the building responds to those fire dynamics is crucial. And if we don't have it, we've got two organisations that may be talking apples and oranges. So IFE has really linked those two groups in. I've been to a few presentations over the last year or so. And it's amazing. It's amazing to see that link. I'm speaking to people that I never thought I would speak to in a space that I'd never usually have access to.

[13:48] Kevin Sofen: I will say yesterday, being at the Training Academy and seeing fire engineers put on PPE and put wet stuff on the red stuff and seeing those gas props be full steam, I know that a lot of them came out with a different perspective in terms of what it means to say, oh, you just add an extra hose link. It's like, do you know how much a hose link weighs and what it's like, it's like wrestling in Anaconda. So just being able to develop that empathy both ways, to me, was something that was really remarkable to see.

[14:16] Steve Kaiser: Yeah, it gives them a first-hand experience. They're not just watching it on Hollywood. They're not watching Chicago Fire, you know?

[14:22] Kevin Sofen: They're actually- It's like Backdraft. That's how it works, right?

[14:25] Steve Kaiser: It's in the walls. No, it's a unique opportunity for both sides to see each other's world. And that's what I really take away from it, that opportunity. And I probably wouldn't have had it without IFE.

[14:36] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, that's wonderful. I'd love to get like a final thought, comment from you, if there's any quote or inspiration or words of wisdom that you live by or aspects within your personal life or the fire service, things that resonate with you.

[14:51] Steve Kaiser: Look, I think to quote someone mostly famous, Ted Lasso, it's just to stay curious. There's so much to learn. Years ago, I thought I knew everything. Then I became an instructor and then I learned a whole lot more I'm well just opened up. And then I meet scientific people who just open it up even more, you know, and if I hadn't have asked the questions and being curious to go and look into different avenues of the fire service or different avenues of fire science, I wouldn't have known anything. I wouldn't have known what I know today. So just be curious.

[15:29] Kevin Sofen: Well said I Curiosity is probably one of my leading North Stars next to empathy But I think curiosity in a lot of ways is a winning business strategy so just really stay curious leads to good outcomes and Steve the fire brigades and fire service here and Australia is in good hands with you And I just continue to be really impressed by all the Australian fire service members. I meet you included So thanks for you doing and keep it the good work.

[15:54] Steve Kaiser: Thank you. Cheers, mate

[15:55] Kevin Sofen: Thanks for listening to this episode recorded alongside the Institute of Fire Engineers during the AFAC show. If you found value in the conversation or learned something new, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your thoughts. Let's keep the discussion going on how we can shape the future of smart firefighting.