Episode 271: The Role of Drones in Emergency Response with Russell Turner

Published 2025-04-24

Episode notes

What are the benefits of using drones for emergency response?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

How drones are being used for situational awareness, indoor assessments, and managing hazardous material incidents

The challenges of drone implementation

Why collaboration and knowledge sharing are essential for the successful integration of drones in the fire service

Hear from Russell Turner - the Chief Remote Pilot and Team Leader of Aviation for Fire and Rescue NSW .

Russell shares insights into how drones are transforming emergency response. He discusses their use in providing situational awareness, conducting indoor assessments, and managing hazardous material incidents, all of which help to enhance safety and efficiency during operations.

Russell also outlines the challenges of implementing drones, including navigating regulatory restrictions and overcoming public perception hurdles. He envisions a future where drones are standard tools in the fire service, offering improved capabilities for emergency response. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of collaboration and knowledge sharing among fire services and other stakeholders to maximize the benefits of drone technology.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share!

Episode Resources:

AFAC25 Conference

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn

Chapters

0:00 Intro from the IFE booth at AFAC 2024
0:49 Russell Turner joins, and the Tim Tam wager
1:43 32 years in the fire service
3:08 The Western Sydney training academy
4:07 How drones arrived in the fire service
5:16 Putting a camera in the sky
6:24 Flying indoors after a building collapse
8:31 LiDAR, zoom and thermal cameras
10:26 Drones in hazmat incidents
11:08 Flying drones inside tunnels
14:10 CASA rules and implementation challenges
16:16 A drone on every fire truck
17:58 Quadcopter versus fixed wing
19:10 Payload delivery
20:41 Lighting from the air
22:22 Collaborating across borders
23:33 Drone bans and data security
24:54 A new search and rescue program
25:31 Final message
26:49 What the IFE means to Russell
27:45 Wrap

Questions answered in this episode

How is the Australian Fire Service using drones for structural collapse incidents?

Russell Turner says they send drones into buildings first to do an assessment and live stream it to the command point, so engineers and commanders can evaluate safety without putting firefighters at risk. At one recent incident, a drone was lost in a subsequent collapse; if firefighters had been inside gathering the same information, the outcome would have been terrible.

Hear it at 5:16

What cost savings do drones provide at emergency incidents?

Russell Turner says they are saving millions of dollars at some incidents by flying in quickly to gather intelligence that might traditionally take 24 hours and risk firefighter lives. Opening up industry sooner can save money, and avoiding a firefighter injury saves about one and a half million Australian dollars, plus reputational damage and mental welfare costs.

Hear it at 5:16

How do drones help with hazardous materials incidents?

Russell Turner explains that drones with 200 times zoom cameras can read gauges and check valves at chemical spills or gas leaks, and thermal cameras detect how full cylinders are. This avoids setting up an 11 person hazmat team and deploying personnel in protective suits.

Hear it at 9:03

Can drones fly inside tunnels for emergency response?

Russell Turner says they have proven drones can fly inside tunnels, even without GPS. Radio reception is actually better because the waves are compressed along the tunnel. They flew inside an underground construction site at a sinkhole incident to film the underside and confirm it was stable before surface work began.

Hear it at 11:20

What is one emerging drone capability Russell Turner is excited about?

Payload delivery. During flooding response, firefighters had to trudge through knee deep mud for half an hour to carry equipment or put swimmers in the water to deliver supplies. Flying items from a safe zone into the work zone keeps people safer and provides better service.

Hear it at 19:25

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 271 transcript

The Role of Drones in Emergency Response with Russell Turner

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Russell Turner

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a mini Smart Firefighting podcast series, recorded live at the Institute of Fire Engineers booth during the 2024 AFAC Show Down Under in Sydney, Australia. Throughout these conversations, we dive into critical issues like fire safety, emerging technologies, diversity in the fire service, and innovative solutions for emergency response. We would use fascinating insights from leaders around the world on how we can build a safer and more resilient future. Russell Turner, team leader of aviation at the Australian Fire Service, discusses how drones are transforming emergency response. He explores the use of drones for situational awareness, hazardous material incidents, and the challenges of regulatory restrictions. Russell Turner, we are sitting here live in AFAC, our first podcast here down under. first podcast ever recorded your first podcast ever this is a lot of first going on here today

[1:01] Russell Turner: yeah I worried but excited and nervous all at the same time it's pretty cool

[1:05] Kevin Sofen: yeah well yeah just in a glass case of emotion all these all the fields

[1:09] Russell Turner: we'll be right please be gentle

[1:10] Kevin Sofen: oh I'll do my best we do have Tim Tams so you know if we are good we all we get one but I just found out from you there's only one Tim Tam it's a double coat Tim Tam must go double coat double coat or bust

[1:21] Russell Turner: although double coat is less in the packet so it's an economy of scale.

[1:25] Kevin Sofen: Oh, it's really just a smart business.

[1:27] Russell Turner: Yeah now I'm looking forward to the double coat as a reward and if you offer it to me at the end then maybe I've done

[1:33] Kevin Sofen: All right, if you forget I know that I haven't we may just you know end this podcast early and just eat the Tim Tams All right, we're done. Yeah good. Yeah, so Russell. Give me a high level Who are you and what got you here today that we're sitting here alongside each other at AFAC?

[1:47] Russell Turner: Yeah, so 32 years I've been on this I'll say journey because that's a buzzword and 32 years ago joined the fire service and back then last century young guy straight out of school and joined the fire brigade at that time and at that time we just did fires and we just taken on a bit of rescue work and we just started doing hazardous materials and 32 years later I never thought I'd be doing the job I do. I'm currently the team leader of aviation and the whole 32 years I've pretty much done like four or five year stints across different bits and when I get bored I just move on to the next thing and you know whether that be working in the busiest fire station in the state for a few years, whether it's training recruits, I did some years on the international search and rescue team full-time, which was an amazing time of my career, and then I built the Academy out of Western Sydney, was responsible for that for a few years, and then this job came up and I found my utopia. And the best thing about this, I think, is I'm sort of paying back all those opportunities I got in my years and giving back to the organisation through doing some cool stuff, integrating search and rescue with drones and training centres with drones and the like. So yeah, it's 32 years and now I get paid to fly. They're not toys, don't call them toys today, but I get paid to fly drones for a living, it's awesome.

[2:58] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, sometimes you gotta pinch yourself with what you are able to do and what you get to do. And so kudos to you, that's pretty awesome with the journey you're at. And I had the fortune of going to the training academy yesterday. Yes. And I will say I've been to a lot of training academies in my life and it was absolutely the most beautiful, well-oiled machine, efficient production of a training academy.

[3:17] Russell Turner: Yeah, we're very proud. It's not quite finished. The person who took over for me, I'm sure will do a great job finishing. But again, not only have I sort of found myself in the best jobs, but I've worked with some really great people and continue to work with some really great people. So it seems that people did that academy and yeah, we're very proud of what we've achieved out there.

[3:34] Kevin Sofen: Are there any emus or kangaroos that are still roaming the property or?

[3:38] Russell Turner: Now and then we'll get a kangaroo jump the fence or you know, a wallaby or something jump the fence and everyone will go into panic and we'll shoo it out and get on with life.

[3:46] Kevin Sofen: Yeah well it really is a good environment yesterday it was a good experience watching the fire engineers work hand-in-hand and actually experience what it's like to put on PPE and experience what it's like to put the wet stuff on the red stuff so I can only imagine some of the other programming going on there.

[4:01] Russell Turner: Yeah it's very important that you know we work together not just in the office in the professional sense but we understand what each other do.

[4:07] Kevin Sofen: Yeah so drones it's a big thing that's come along in the American Fire Service, the Global Fire Service, I remember it was around 2012 or 13, I was actually building drones in the basement of Darley where we were, the colleague and I, Mike Massarino, we were literally kind of like gluing and duct-taping these drones together and being the first to fly these at FDIC in like 2011, 2012, 2013, and something alongside thinking about where drones have come and where they're at now, they've obviously evolved quite a bit and I think The biggest thing is that there are ease of use and ease of operation. And then now thinking about what you can do with cameras and sensors, and then being able to stream this information to provide operational insights, there's so much you can do with drones, particularly from a USAR perspective, I would love to hear from you of like, how have you approached implementing drones within the Australian Fire Service, what obstacles have you faced, and maybe then also particularly what have been the really some of the early successes of drones within the fire service here?

[5:08] Russell Turner: So we've got four hours for this.

[5:10] Kevin Sofen: Hey, we have a whole bag of Tim Tams. So that's nice to double coat. I got like probably six more in there, so.

[5:16] Russell Turner: Yeah, wow. So fire services of the world around and across Australia are putting the camera in the sky and doing the live streaming thing. And that's a standard, you know, that's a standard outcome now for not just fire services, but the emergency services and corporations that are now in the space. So anyone can really do that. You can generally walk into the JB Hi-Fi or an electronic outlet and buy a drone and put it in the sky and stream. So we've been doing that since 2016, and I've only been in position for maybe just under two years. And up until then, they have built an amazing base now that we're starting to lever off, because putting a camera in the sky and providing that situational awareness is one thing, but we're looking at how do we adapt other things to do a similar job, but also to branch out and how else can we keep the fire safe. And we're doing that a couple of ways. So we have an amazing data team and the high-end stuff the really expensive drones and the expensive cameras that strap onto them. They go out and they do all their mapping and their hyperspectral and other big words that I don't understand sometimes. But we're finding new ways to support the fireies. We're flying indoors and we're sending drones into places now where it's generally been traditionally too dangerous to send fireies or a really calculated risk to send firefighters and emergency services. So where we've had a building collapse, instead of sending the firefighters and the USAR crews in first. We're actually setting the drone in first to fly indoors, do an assessment, live stream it out to the command point. The commanders are looking at the screen with the engineers and making sure they've got all the right data and they're taking that element of the unknown out of it because a lot of times if we're going to some of those things it's an element of unknown and calculated risk based on that unknown and for us to fly the drone in we're just capturing that high definition imagery. The engineers are looking at it to say hey that's it's safer, it's not safe. And then the incident management team are coming up with a plan to move forward. And we're literally saving millions of dollars at some incidents where we're able to fly into something where it traditionally might take 24 hours to get all the intelligence. And we might actually risk the life of a firefighter to send them in to get the same intel. So we're saving millions of dollars by opening up industry at some of these jobs where we fly in and we realise it's not as bad as what we thought. So we're saving lots of money for industry. We're saving lives. So we have deployed drones into some places. We did actually lose a drone in a subsequent collapse, which if we had firefighters on the scene getting that same information and the roof collapsed on them, they would have had a terrible outcome and that was only recently. So, you know, we'd still be paying the price and we can put a price on a firefighter and you know, every organisation on average, I reckon it's about a million and a half Australian dollars that the organisation has to pay in dollars, but there's also the reputational damage, there's the mental welfare. All the stuff you can't put a dollar figure on it. You can't put a dollar figure on it and you know just losing a mate or losing a fellow colleague the effect that has. So in that one incident you know where we deployed a drone where we could potentially have had people in for the same thing we might have saved three million dollars plus all the other stuff that goes along. So I think we're providing a really good product and we're you know we're really helping keep fire and it's a cliche we're helping to keep the firefighters safe we're helping to get that good situational awareness so commanders know what's going on, they don't assume, and they don't take those calculated risks. We're helping them out significantly.

[8:31] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, well and you mentioned some of the dynamics in terms of indoor assessment and a great example of sending in a drone and collapsing and not risking human life. Tell me a little bit more about some of the specific use cases from when you're leveraging a LiDAR camera, a multi-spectral camera, a zoom camera, lighting droppers, all these different pieces that you use, like what are those pieces and ultimately, are there any sort of like use cases, examples of these new components of a drone that allow you some new capability that you didn't have before?

[9:03] Russell Turner: Well, yeah, the LIDAR. So we have two types of event or two types of mission. We have the planned missions, which are all the LIDAR and the hyperspectral analysis. Before I joined the team, the data team and the pilots were up in the northern rivers floods. They were using the LIDAR camera to calculate the volumetrics of the debris that was on the roadside, so they can then tell the local government that they expect 40,000 cubic metres of debris that we have to deal with, so then they can get 10 trucks and they know that it won't fit in the local tip and they've got to start planning much earlier than, you know, what they traditionally would have because they would have got to that tip being filled and then worried about it, whereas they can do a lot more pre-planning. So the data team who work on that are just amazing human beings and they do their job very well. Now in the emergency response the unplanned phase we're doing the zoom camera you mentioned so if we have a chemical spill for example a gas leak from an industrial site historically we would set up a hazmat team there's what 11 people you need to set up a hazmat crew to go in and decontamination and the price of all the suits and the time it takes to set it up, and the human cost, we can just fly a drone over, turn the 200 times zoom camera on and read gauges, we can check valves, we can use a thermal cameras to detect how full the cylinders are without actually having to see a gauge. So the drones we are using to get that intelligence and get confirmed intelligence. In years gone by, I was a hazmat technician before the Sydney Olympics before 2000. So part of our job as a hazmat team was to, if we had a silo fire or a job in the industrial area, we would have these little magnetic thermometers.

[10:35] Kevin Sofen: All good.

[10:36] Russell Turner: Yeah. We'd have these little thermometers and we'd go stick them on the side of the cylinder, and then we would then go and read them at intervals. Well, we'd just fly the drone in now and use the onboard cameras to measure the temperature without putting the people into those scenarios. So if that silo was to blow up, touch wood it doesn't, but if it was to blow up, again, what price of life?

[10:56] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. And one thing that I've heard a lot within Sydney and even some other places in Europe is this, the unique challenges that tunnels face for public safety operation. And I know there's, I mean, all the different things that we can do in terms of a training perspective, but obviously from a response perspective, how we're using drones in the tunnel response and preparedness conversation.

[11:20] Russell Turner: So it's interesting because the IFE, when they asked me to talk at the IFE conference here at AFAC 2024, the topic was supposed to be about flying drones in tunnels. And I sort of evolved the presentation to be more about flying drones in dangerous situations, but Sydney has a massive network of underground tunnels and it's just getting more and more, whether it be road or rail. And we recognised probably 12 months ago there's a massive risk with that if we were to have a tunnel incident. And we were asked, can you fly the drones into the tunnels? Now, flying underground has inherent massive risks of no GPS. The drone will drift a lot and you know be affected by wind currents and the like. So there is a lot of unknowns out there for flying in tunnels and we started researching it quite some time ago and we're able to and we've proven we can fly inside a tunnel. At that sinkhole incident in southern Sydney a few months ago we actually flew inside an underground construction site and flew up underneath the sinkhole and were able to film the underside of that sinkhole to make sure that it was stable and we could start doing some work on the surface above without committing the people there. So we've proven and the drones actually work better in tunnels as far as reception goes We can fly to kilometer up the tunnel and Not lose reception because I think the radio waves are sort of squashed along the tunnel not beaming out So we've proven that it can be done. It's particularly Nerve-wracking to be flying and having all these people watching your video feed and they're relying on you So I used to be a professional rugby league, which is a football here in Australia

[12:46] Kevin Sofen: I went to a rugby game on Sunday,

[12:49] Russell Turner: so I used to be a rugby league referee for the National Rugby League for nearly 20 years and I've done the biggest level games and I was nervous before those games but that was nothing compared to flying inside the drones inside these tunnels because the pressure you're under to a prove that it was working and b provide intelligence back it was extremely nerve-wracking but we're able to prove that it's been done there's still plenty of work to be done you know there's certain drones you can fly in tunnels which have got LiDARs and all sorts of scanners on them, but that's, you're talking about a $50,000 drone. So if the tunnel collapses on that, you've lost a $50,000 drone. So there's a bit of a balancing act. Do you send the small consumable drone or do you send the expensive one down there? But we are, we're still researching. A couple of weeks ago, we were still flying inside the rail tunnels under Sydney to try to tweak our skills and see what the best product was.

[13:35] Kevin Sofen: Nice. Yeah, I mean, I would love to continue to dig into that and learn how we can continue to share some of the best practices of what we're doing. and when and if you do give that talk about flying indoors, is that something that's happening?

[13:47] Russell Turner: 12.25 today.

[13:48] Kevin Sofen: 12.25, okay, get your popcorn ready.

[13:50] Russell Turner: In the IFE, stream number five here at AFAC 2024.

[13:53] Kevin Sofen: Okay, I will actually probably, I can't leave the booth. It's Tim Tamsen podcast, so I probably won't be there, but I guess nonetheless, I wanna continue to dive into that, and one thing as you were talking about was all these exciting use cases of drones, but also on the flip side, and just the change management aspect of it and the obstacles faced with how to get droned into a historically conservative fire service into some of the challenges, whether it's the, I believe you'd mentioned that I think it was the CASA rules or as well as just a general cybersecurity and data security and, you know, are people, are you spying on me to, again, this thing's flying overhead, just all these various kind of easy reasons about why we shouldn't do drones. but what are some of the obstacles and any sort of examples, insights, about how to implement drones responsibly and ethically?

[14:46] Russell Turner: The Civil Aviation Safety Authority, CASA, here in Australia are particularly strict in saying that they have to be, and they're doing an amazing job maintaining that safety. Technology's moving really fast. So where the general consumer law is, you can't fly within 30 meters of somebody, CASA is working towards solving that for emergency services because, you know, technically speaking, I'm supposed to get written consent from the victim we're searching for before I go and search for them because I don't want to fly over their heads under the law. So there are some elements we're working through and we're actively working. I have a meeting tomorrow with all the other fire services across the country who share the same issues. So legislation, it takes a long time for that to change. And understandably, they've got to be very pragmatic about that because if they change one thing for us, they're changing it for potentially lots of people across the country. So yeah, so there's a legislation aspect of keeping up with technology because it's so fast. We don't know what's going to be out there in 12 months and what rules we need to look at now. We have the people who don't understand air law. We have the local government people who put up signs that say no drones and are they legally allowed to do that? Not really. And the public think that you can't fly near their houses, but we can. There's no different way. We're kept to the same safety standard as Qantas as far as drones and people laugh at that. But we have to do written flight requests, we have to do risk assessments, job safety analysis before we put the thing in the air, and we have to get permissions from the land owner to launch. But once we're in the air, we can fly anywhere in an airspace that's allowed under the air law. So, you know, there's those local people who get upset when you fly over or near their property, and generally it's education with that. Other services, everyone's getting drones. I think it'll be a matter of time before they're on every fire truck. Our utapia is to be able to launch a drone from a fire station when you get a call, and it flies to the fire, live streams back to the truck on the way, it can communicate with the that people make sure everybody's out and do all that and flying over populous areas, that'd be a lovely utopia to get to, it's a lot of work. But yeah, the challenges, there are many, that's my job, that's what I'm paid to do is try to work with those challenges and move through them.

[16:47] Kevin Sofen: Do you see a world in Australia where there are drones at every station that are either on the truck or being deployed from the station, or what's kind of the drone usage across the New South Wales, even Australia as a whole, and where do you see it going in the next one to five years?

[17:07] Russell Turner: I think maybe five to 10 is probably more reasonable to look at the big picture. We're seeing drones in Melbourne being able to deliver coffee to people, and they're flying over people's houses to do that, and that's because they have all these safety systems and redundancies and the like. Can we lever off that, potentially? But five to 10 years, I think you'll be seeing an explosion in the drone population, And it will just become another tool in the firetruck. It'll just be, you know, a line of hose or a drone, you know, just like an axe. And you know, you might get there and the officer in charge presses a button, the drone, a tethered drone pops up 20 metres off the truck and he's just got a camera in the sky or she's got a camera in the sky.

[17:41] Kevin Sofen: Yeah.

[17:41] Russell Turner: So, I think that will be the norm. And I think there'll be a lot of the, a lot of the unknown that people are scared of with drones at the moment because they don't know, I think we'll go out of it. But in saying that we really have to maintain a really strict safety regime because you can do some damage. Yep. You know, it can't just be a free-for-all. Everyone puts a drone in the air.

[18:00] Kevin Sofen: And this is a little different point around drones, but the difference between quadcopter and fixed-wing, it seems like, obviously, fixed-wing being better for long distances and something that could be used for different aspects of bushfire applications. Are you using fixed-wing within the city setting, or do you think that's more of a wildfire, bushfire type application?

[18:21] Russell Turner: Well, under the current law, we can't really use it in an urban setting urban setting because we've got to be 30 meters from people. And we do have fixed swing. We have a VTOL unit, vertical takeoff landing. So we have a couple of those and that's mainly for that plan, long distance mapping imagery mission. So we do have a couple of them we can deploy, but they do need large areas to take off and land. Lots of other agencies around the state and the country are using some parts of the law to fly long distance as an outer liner site. We're an urban fire service. So 99% of our work is around people. So we don't have the luxury of being able to fly it out of the ocean and go down the coast. We can't fly over the bushland because that's not where our work is. But yeah, no, the long range stuff we definitely, we have at the moment under the current legislation and the laws, we were restricted as to what we can do with it, but we're hoping to work through a bit of that.

[19:09] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. What is one technology or one sort of emerging aspect of drones within the near future, one to two years that you're really excited about in terms of how they'll continue to help your drone operations within New South Wales?

[19:25] Russell Turner: Payload delivery. Yeah. So a couple of years ago, we had significant flooding to the north of here, maybe 10 hour drive north. And I was up there for quite some time. I had a few different aspects. I went to a landslide where a house was washed down the slope and we had to do a search for the person inside the house. So we were trudging through knee deep mud for half an hour to get to the actual work site. And we get to the work site and say, we needed box A and we didn't bring it. So someone had to trudge half an hour back to the truck, get box A, then trudge half an hour through this mud and all the debris, because it was in a very remote area where we couldn't get 500 responders to come and help. So by having pay... delivery, we can fly items from the safe zone into the work zone, do the deliveries, bring stuff back without having to have that human element. And again, it's about keeping people safe. It's not having to wrestle with a 30 kilo jackhammer or something, and the potential for injury for the people. And then we were doing resupply. So for weeks we did resupply to communities affected by the floods, and we were literally putting swimmers in the water with their shopping bags to swim their goods over to them and their medical packs and medications and anything they needed, we're putting fireies in danger. We're putting them into the water. So if we can fly the items across and drop them off, that's providing a better service, but it's also providing a safer service in keeping our people safe.

[20:41] Kevin Sofen: You had also mentioned lighting as something, lighting being a pain. What's something, what about lighting? Are you interested or excited about?

[20:48] Russell Turner: A few weeks ago, we had an explosion in a property in Western Sydney, and I was actually flying at the time. They were doing, it was a USAR incident. we were doing a search and I noticed pretty quickly I was up in the air and I noticed that the remote lights were flashing which indicates that the generator is about to run out of fuel and then they went out. So straight away I pressed the button on the drone and they had 2,000 lumens coming straight down on the workers so they could get off the pole safely until the lights were reinstated but actually found the lighting was just as good coming from a drone. Wow. So that sort of that instigated a bit of research on my behalf to start looking at lighting systems and the team have reached out to few people and we've got some lighting systems that we're looking at and being able to suspend that tethered in the air permanently for hours or days and days. You know, if there's anyone listening from Australia who remembers the Threadbow landslide, which was back in 1997 in the Snowy Mountains, some ski lodges got washed down the hill. It's quite a big event in the history of Australian disaster management. But, you know, the balloons then were filled with helium and then the lights were underneath these helium balloons that were floating across the pile. So we can do that with drones now. So, you know, the balloons aren't going to fly away and disappear to the moon, we can do that with drones. And the technology's there, it's amazing technology. And every week, something new's coming in. You don't know what's gonna be around in 12 months. It's so hard, as someone who has to bid for funding 12 months in advance, for me to bid for something 12 minutes in advance, it's already done that, by the time we sort of get it. So, you know, it's quite a challenge, but it's one that we thrive on, and my team are amazing, and they're always talking to people, and we're learning off of other fire services and other emergency services to get the best out there.

[22:22] Kevin Sofen: Are you collaborating with stakeholders outside of Australia on drone applications and usage operations?

[22:28] Russell Turner: They're mainly personal relationships. So I would love to be able to sort of have a bit more of a formal network internationally. So people are on the TikToks and the Facebooks and the YouTubes and they'll send stuff and say, Hey, have you seen this? Some of them are gimmicks, but some of them have real value and can be brought forward. And then we just sort of make contact and we do it in that way. So there's no formal network. The network in Australia is really strong. We've just started the National Fire Agency forum so that we can learn off each other.

[22:56] Kevin Sofen: Amazing.

[22:57] Russell Turner: And in my old days in the USAR team, we did that. And what you can learn from each other and for efficiency is ridiculous. You can save so much time and energy by learning that.

[23:06] Kevin Sofen: I got a group of drone nerds that I got connected with. Yeah. It's actually a group of probably like 20 individuals, some FTMY, Boston, and Austin Fire, and kind of led by this gentleman named Coy Kessler. He works for a company called Drone Sense. But yeah, really good intuitive drone streaming, video streaming platform, but his big thing is it's kind of building on like the Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell one voice mentality, particularly leaning in with drones. In America, there's been some challenges on the trying to ban certain drones.

[23:38] Russell Turner: Oh, yes, we're on that way.

[23:41] Kevin Sofen: But it's also the challenge where it's, I mean, again, we both have an iPhone, Android, but particularly with my iPhone of like, again, if someone wants to steal my data or take my information, it basically can be taken. I realize that's kind of a fully loaded statement, but I think the challenge is when that drone conversation of like, of course, I think American manufacturers would, American drone pilots would use only drone American manufacturers if they were up to the standard to be able to meet what they need right now, and this is not there yet. So that's a whole slippery slope of a conversation. We don't have to go too far down that rabbit hole, But this group, I definitely needed to connect to because there's a lot of knowledge sharing. There's also an event in March timeframe called the Texas Robotics Summit. Best show I've ever been to. Just as run by Granted Defense at Texas Rebel Ranch, Rebel Peak Rally Ranch, something like that. But it's a lot of good hands-on classroom discussion followed by let's go in the field and fly these drones and drop some payloads and try and find people in fields. So maybe something I'll have to get you out for, but if not, definitely gonna connect you with some of these drone nerds.

[24:46] Russell Turner: Yeah, I'm looking for, I was gonna go to an event in the UK this year, but that fell through, so.

[24:50] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, hey, that's better than kicking over the Tim Tams. Gosh, Russell.

[24:54] Russell Turner: Yeah, no, I was gonna go to a show in the UK this year, that fell through, so I am looking for some engagement to do for my own development as well, because yeah, I'm willing to learn all sorts of things. We rolled out a search and rescue program. We didn't find anyone in Australia, really, who had a really good, proven search and rescue process. We get called to search for people lost in the bush, And we've taken six months to do a lot of testing, a lot of communication with other people. And we're now rolling that out to all our people and it's having amazing success. A little bit of education has increased our success rate immeasurably.

[25:25] Kevin Sofen: That's wonderful.

[25:26] Russell Turner: Yeah, it's really well received and it's really proving to be beneficial. We're having success all over the place.

[25:31] Kevin Sofen: Well, Russell, any kind of giving you a final moment here of any sort of mic drop type, any quote or message or even challenge or question that you live by or something that you could share with us here to finish this out today?

[25:45] Russell Turner: I live by a few quotes, not necessarily in the aviation space, but I'm just a big believer in researching and talking to each other, treating people well, go home happy. If we feel like we made a difference, and I think I really believe we're making a difference in what we're doing and all my team are doing, you know, we go home happy because we've provided that safety. And I'm so proud that tunnel collapse proves that we're saving lives. So yeah, really proud of our work and hopefully we continue to grow and hopefully be embraced by our service and all the other services.

[26:13] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, as you should be. Well, Russell, it's a pleasure to get to talk with you. We definitely need to expand upon this conversation. This was a wonderful 28 minutes, but we definitely, we got to get the other three and a half hours in that four-hour interview in the next near future.

[26:27] Russell Turner: Yeah, now I've got to talk at 12.25.

[26:29] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, that's right.

[26:29] Russell Turner: Well, I'll be there and make up done for that.

[26:31] Kevin Sofen: In this little podcast booth, we got all sorts of stuff. You know, I think there might be Tim Tam makeup. We got an IFE tie for you. Whatever you need, Russell.

[26:38] Russell Turner: Nah, beautiful. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I love AFAC. I love renewing. You don't see people for a year and then it's like you just run into them. So I enjoy this forum and I enjoy sharing our stories and learning off others.

[26:49] Kevin Sofen: Final thing is what is IFE to you? Why does IFE something, an organization that's something that people should consider, you know, connecting with?

[26:58] Russell Turner: IFE for a long time as a junior fire, it was this forum for really smart people. And, oh, how do I say this without saying it?

[27:04] Kevin Sofen: Now it's for a bucket of blokes like us?

[27:07] Russell Turner: It's not about being smart. It's about thinking and using the technology and the information best. IFE is an amazing forum for those smart people, but also the people who want to apply it on a day-to-day level. And I've done the survey for how do we get more females involved in the IFE and make sure everyone, you know, fills out that survey because we, you know, they've got a lot to offer too, and they should be part of this forum as well. So IFE, yeah, definitely part of the family.

[27:33] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, I'm grateful to be a small piece of the puzzle here with IFE and being able to talk with guys like yourself. So Russell, thanks for what you're doing and look forward to staying in touch.

[27:41] Russell Turner: Thanks for having me, 12.25.

[27:42] Kevin Sofen: Right on. Talk soon. Thanks for listening to this episode recorded alongside the Institute of Fire Engineers during the AFAC Show. If you found value in the conversation or learned something new, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your thoughts, and let's keep the discussion going on how we can shape the future of smart firefighting.