Episode 240: Integrating Drones as a First Responder - Technology for Enhanced Public Safety with Gabe Graveline

Episode notes

What is the Drone First Responder (DFR) Initiative?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

In this episode:

What is the transformative role of drones in public safety at the Tulsa Fire Department?

How do drones enhance situational awareness for mental health situations?

How are Tusla Fire, academia, and local companies advancing drone technology?

Learn from Gabe Graveline - an EMS Officer for the Tulsa Fire Department.

Gabe talks about using drones in public safety and the development of the Drone First Responder (DFR) initiative in Tulsa. He highlights the various applications of drones, including pre-incident planning, response to structure fires and search operations, and crisis response for mental health situations.

Gabe also emphasizes the importance of collaboration among the Tulsa Fire Department, academia, and local companies to advance drone technology and create a common operating picture. He underscores the need for data integration and accessibility for first responders and looks forward to the future expansion of the DFR initiative.

So take a listen to hear what he has to share!

Episode Resources:

RespondAir UAS

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn

Chapters

1. 0:00 Intro to the Metro Fire Chiefs miniseries in Tulsa
2. 0:36 Gabe Graveline joins at the Tulsa Fire Training Academy
3. 1:20 Gabe's path from aviation to firefighter, paramedic and drone pilot
4. 2:32 Basic and advanced drone use cases
5. 3:32 The crisis response team and drones for mental health calls
6. 5:47 Drone as first responder and Tulsa's DFR 2.0
7. 8:30 How radar deconfliction works
8. 9:38 Oklahoma State and O-Air's role
9. 10:54 The next 12 to 60 months for Tulsa FD
10. 13:03 TAK as a common operating picture
11. 14:40 Advice for companies building data tools for responders
12. 17:03 What's on the horizon
13. 18:31 Why the Texas Robotics Summit matters
14. 20:12 Wrap
15. 20:50 Outro

Questions answered in this episode

What is drone as a first responder (DFR)?

Gabe Graveline describes DFR as having a drone available to be at the scene as the first arriving unit for incidents like structure fires, searches for missing or endangered people, or barricaded subjects. Tulsa is implementing what he calls DFR 2.0, using radars to deconflict airspace both day and night in areas that are response challenges.

Hear it at 6:43

How does Tulsa Fire use radar with their drone program?

The radar provides deconfliction by giving situational awareness of what is in the airspace, whether manned aircraft, other drones, or birds. It integrates into software that gives early warnings so operators can keep the airspace safe and get out of the way when needed.

Hear it at 8:53

What is the Community Response Team (CRT) that Gabe Graveline works on?

The CRT is a team with a Tulsa Fire paramedic, a Tulsa police officer, and a mental health counselor. Their main focus is to de-escalate and help people in crisis, deciding whether they need a hospital, mental health facility, or can stay safely at home. The model is based on Colorado Springs Fire Department's program.

Hear it at 4:35

What role does Oklahoma State University play in Tulsa's drone program?

Gabe Graveline says Oklahoma State University (O-Air) does work with beyond visual line of sight operations, including testing blood deliveries to scenes using fixed wing and quadcopter aircraft. They help with prototyping, testing, troubleshooting, and have helped with funding after Tulsa was designated a tech hub.

Hear it at 10:03

What drone use cases does Tulsa Fire Department practice?

Tulsa uses drones for pre-incident planning and 3D modeling of target hazards, creating up-to-date maps of new construction, response to structure fires and searches, and situational awareness on the CRT team to avoid approaching scenes with unexpected dangers.

Hear it at 2:43

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 240 transcript

Integrating Drones as a First Responder - Technology for Enhanced Public Safety with Gabe Graveline

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Gabe Graveline

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to this mini-series of the Smart Firefighting Podcast. Today, we're covering stories from outside Metro Fire Chiefs Conference in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where fire chiefs from the world's largest metros gathered. We had various sessions with drone experts to discuss drone hardware, software, and innovation ecosystem developments. Tulsa Fire Department and Oklahoma State University are spearheading some impressive new technology initiatives like drone as a first responder, and it was an honor to witness their cutting-edge efforts firsthand. Enjoy. We are officially rolling live here with Gabe Graveline here in the closet of the equipment room at the Tulsa Fire Training Academy. Is that about right?

[0:45] Gabe Graveline: That's about right. We'll call it the Task Force Preparedness Room is what we'll call it.

[0:48] Kevin Sofen: I couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, the TPR.

[0:50] Gabe Graveline: Yeah, TPR.

[0:51] Kevin Sofen: There's an acronym for anything these days.

[0:53] Gabe Graveline: Yeah, I make them up as I go,

[0:55] Kevin Sofen: Well, man, Tulsa's got a little special energy to it besides in the tornado warnings that I think happened maybe on a, I don't know, weekly basis.

[1:04] Gabe Graveline: Yeah, I've been a couple times a week here lately.

[1:06] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, last night, I mean, even the thunder, I live in the Midwest and the thunder lightning there is sometimes prevalent, but the ones last night, I was like, wow, that was, that felt pretty intense.

[1:15] Gabe Graveline: Oh yeah. Just wait till this afternoon. We've got a special surprise waiting for you.

[1:18] Kevin Sofen: Okay. I'm looking forward to it. So tell me a little bit about Gabe Graveline, you know, from the background to getting to where you are today. You've worn a few hats in public safety, but before we dive into all things drones, tell me about some of your background and evolution within public safety.

[1:34] Gabe Graveline: Okay, so well, I grew up loving aviation, grew up in West Texas, thought I wanted to be an airline pilot, actually moved to Tulsa to go to flight school. I ended up getting involved with air ambulance service, getting their aircraft stuff like that ready, saw what they did and ended up being a first responder, obviously a firefighter EMT. I since became a paramedic, but I always kept my love for aviation. So building RC planes growing up, stuff like that, and obviously having my manned pilot's license, I stay pretty involved in aviation. And so when drones first started to kind of make their mark or move in around, you know, 2014, 2015, I started getting involved, started a business. And then I saw how they could be used for the betterment of, you know, public safety, situational awareness, keeping us safer. So I introduced them to my department. The chiefs were pretty interested in them. They allowed us to get our first drone. And then since then, been experimenting, you know, and working with other companies, stuff like that, to try and progress the technology for public safety.

[2:32] Kevin Sofen: So from a high level and maybe kind of rapid fire, what are some, you know, maybe some basic or advanced use cases of how drones can be used as tools for public safety response?

[2:43] Gabe Graveline: Well, if you, I guess the way I kind of look at it, you start thinking about the way we do things for pre-planning, some of our target hazards, whether it's hazmat, stuff like that. Just knowing what's around or in that building, being able to do a 3D model and have that available for a response or should you ever have a response there. That's one way we do things. So we'll do pre-incident planning with the drones, making sure that we make up-to-date maps, especially on new construction, stuff like that may not appear in Google and that kind of stuff. From there, obviously being prepared for response, being available to have a pilot that can be at the scene If we have a structure fire, a search for missing, endangered, and or, you know, barricaded. I spent about 15 years on the fire truck, about 18 and a half years into my career with the fire department. And I now do what's called a CRT crisis response team, community response team, mental health. So it's myself, a Tulsa police officer and a counselor. So our main focus is to de-escalate, to try and help people that are in crisis to calm down and find what the best fit is, whether that's the hospital, whether that's a mental health facility, whether that's keeping them at home, make sure that they're safe. And we use drones for that a lot of times. Sometimes we use that for situational awareness so that we don't come up on a scene, you know, something we're not expecting. So it's come in handy for that. But I think the reason you're here is because we're actually dabbling in drones as a first responder.

[4:08] Kevin Sofen: Well, I'm here for a few reasons, but one of it is to learn about all the cool stuff you're doing. And frankly, the CRT team, actually, I want to dabble in that for just a couple more seconds. It's a great example of multi-public safety crossover between fire, police, and I guess public professional, health, mental health professional. How did that start, and what's been the kind of response and overall feedback of that program?

[4:35] Gabe Graveline: So, we've got to give credit where credit's due. I know that our model is after Colorado Springs Fire Department, so they did a co-responder collaborative where they had, you know, a lot of places just do an officer and a counselor. We thought that there's actually, on a lot of these calls, a health issue that can be addressed and or assessed. So we put the paramedic in there. So it's actually worked fantastic. We've all got different viewpoints. We've all got different data to add. And at times, a person doesn't want to speak to an officer, doesn't want to speak to a clinician, but they'll talk to a firefighter or vice versa. Some days they don't want to see anybody in uniform. They want to talk to a counselor. And so we use that to our advantage to try and, you know, get to where we need to be to make sure that they're safe and that others around them are safe as well.

[5:20] Kevin Sofen: That's an amazing program. It seems like, yeah, kudos to Colorado Springs and now Tulsa, and it seems like that potential program has some legs to be copied and replicated across the country.

[5:31] Gabe Graveline: Yeah, absolutely. And we look forward to being in Omaha next month to present about how we're using drones to de-escalate for mental health.

[5:38] Kevin Sofen: Oh, what's in Omaha?

[5:39] Gabe Graveline: It's called the Co-Responder Conference, CoreCon.

[5:42] Kevin Sofen: CoreCon? gosh, I might need to change my plans and directed to Omaha here in a month.

[5:47] Gabe Graveline: Hey.

[5:47] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. That's cool. Or so, drones are actually how we first met at the Texas Robotics Summit. We, you know, as we're talking, our 20-part miniseries is released from that. We just had Mike O'Shea released. You had Mike Pavone from Boston. You had guys from the FDNY guys at Austin, Texas TPS. It was a really awesome kind of wide range of, you know, why drones, what are the applications? And one thing in particular that's been trending more and more is this whole drone as a first responder. You know, we've talked a lot in this podcast about what are drones, why drones, the evolution, they're not toys, they're tools, and safety is their own priority. But drone as a first responder, I believe I first heard about it with Chula Vista, and they were kind of the first on the scene to do it. Now you're seeing more and more do it. But what's happening in Tulsa with DFR and what's maybe unique about it? or kind of, and where are you at with the whole DFR initiative right now?

[6:43] Gabe Graveline: Okay, so yeah, again, give credit where credit's due. Chula Vista working with the FAA, kind of pioneered DFR, kind of got it out there, got more people thinking about it. Pearl in Texas took it to the next step using radar to get rid of the rooftop visual observer. So what Tulsa's doing is we are kind of doing our little variation of it as well. We are looking to do that DFR 2.0, basically using radars to deconflict both day and night in a location that we consider to be a response challenge. So we are trying to do it with homegrown companies though. So I'm not sure how much people, if anybody knows anything about Tulsa or Oklahoma at all, fly over state. We are pretty rich in aeronautics, aerospace, and also oil and gas. So there's a lot of money that drives that and doing it more efficiently, whether it's inspections, stuff like that. Everyone's interested in moving forward in that realm. And so we have a lot of smart people here. And so we've decided to tap into those and like, your company does this, your company does this, we need both of those, let's work together. So instead of siloing information and each kind of, you know, hiding what we're doing, we've formed a DFR collaborative with academia, Oklahoma State University, who's a big firefighting school for us, they do a lot of our training, FST. We brought them in, built this collaborative and said, we need this, we need more of, you know, we need more of this, we need prototyping, we need testing and engineering, we need, know, STEM outreach. We need, you know, this in the workforce. So we've kind of come up with a collaborative and following Tulsa Fire's lead on what we know about drones as a first responder, we have decided to give this program a push and try and start with this first spot and then basically scale it across the rest of the state.

[8:30] Kevin Sofen: A lot to unpack there, but first I want to touch on the radar component in terms of having it, how is that working and sort of it's, my understanding is it's sort of passively looking for any potential other aircraft to make sure that there wouldn't be a potential issue to then give the green light that, hey, that a DFR can be initiated to go look for someone that may be lost on the river.

[8:53] Gabe Graveline: Sure, so basically what the FAA likes to call is deconfliction, so basically what it's doing is taking a person's eyes and what you would say it's always the responsibility of the drone operator to get out of the way of the manned aircraft or to avoid a conflict, a collision, even if it's with another drone, okay. So what this does is it allows us to know what's up there in that airspace, whether it's a manned aircraft, whether it's another drone, whether it's birds, whatever, and have that situational awareness so that we know that the area is safe. And it also gives us a heads up to say, hey, this is approaching, you need to get out of the way. We're doing that by integrating those radars into software that can speak to us and give us those early warnings so that we can make sure that we keep the airspace safe, which the FAA has done a great job of doing.

[9:38] Kevin Sofen: Man, that's cool. And then now you had mentioned the involvement of academia, Oklahoma State in particular, and had the fortune of getting to talk with O-Air a little bit and James and the program he's building out over there. What is O-Air and Oklahoma State's sort of role and involvement and how are they kind of being a piece of the puzzle that's helping continue to drive? this kind of Tulsa robotics innovation initiative?

[10:03] Gabe Graveline: So O-Air does a lot of work with Beyond Visual line of sight. We've particularly been looking at doing, we practice doing blood deliveries to a scene using fixed wing, using quadcopter aircraft. So they do a lot of work in prototyping and testing in Stillwater. They also have campuses in Tulsa and Oklahoma City. So that kind of helps having it right around the corner. They are also a big part of, Tulsa was designated a tech hub, and that brought in some federal dollars. And so they kind of helped to distribute that to say what, you know, going to help push this region forward, and they've seen this as a worthy project, and so they've been involved in it and help us, you know, troubleshoot and find solutions and push forward. So they've helped a lot with funding.

[10:54] Kevin Sofen: just hearing James talk about the desire and drive to be this ecosystem for this, I think this area is a tech innovation hub designated and how OK State sort of acting as this other sort of, I guess I would describe as like a catalyst and a magnet and an enabler for all this stuff. It seems like now Tulsa has continued to be a practitioner of this tech and DFR, we're now kind of on the cusp of it here. You being a practitioner of all this robotic work, what do you see in the next 12 to 60 months, you know, what do you see as the next kind of milestones or opportunities for continued integration of technology for good within Tulsa FD?

[11:33] Gabe Graveline: So what I envision is a better collaboration. You know, right now the fire department's got their program, police got theirs, you know, some of the city departments, you know, whether it's water or parks, they've got their own. We kind of don't know what each other's doing, what our capabilities are. What I'd like to do is build a collaborative in that realm for the city to say, okay, we have this equipment when this disaster strikes or when this is needed. We have this. We can complement each other. And not only in aerial robotics, but the fire department also use a lot of underwater ground sub-terrain that we've had to reach out to other partners out of the state, whatever. We didn't realize that our water and sewage had the capability here. So having those discussions on what it is that we're trying to accomplish and how we can help each other out is one big thing. So collaboration is huge. What I hopefully see is us expanding from that one single location to scaling across the city, across the region, help – Oklahoma City is working on something as well and kind of helping Oklahoma and our neighboring states to kind of help the Midwest maybe not be a flyover state anymore or if it's a flyover state for a whole lot of technology and drones doing good.

[12:46] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, and stop in and do some good for a little bit. I was pleasantly surprised and excited that the base of Chicago, there's quite a bit of nonstop flights to Chicago and Tulsa, which is, I think they're a sign that I got to come hang out with Gabe in Tulsa a bit more.

[12:59] Gabe Graveline: Hey, you are always welcome. You know that.

[13:02] Kevin Sofen: No, I appreciate that. One other thing that we talked about, and this kind of ties in with this whole ways is that data is being seen and used, these three letters called T-A-K, TAK, or actually sometimes the fourth letter, ATAK, iTAK, or WinTAK, whatever. But general, I think ATAK, TAK, in particular what people know. What is TAK in your opinion, and what are you kind of looking at or thinking about with all things TAK?

[13:25] Gabe Graveline: So for me and what I have learned so far, TAK seems to be a great common operating picture. Basically, it's bringing all that information into one place to where you can easily access it. You know, it's accessible no matter where you're at, whether it's feeds for drones, whether it's controlling robotics, whether it's map layers, whether all that kind of stuff. You know, we've actually got an integration partner here locally, a software company that's helping us do that stuff as well, but TAK would just kind of help build into that. So very interested, I think I've told you I'm taking baby steps, learning it all, coming from the Apple side. I haven't been around an Android system in quite a while, but I'm getting there and it's really, it's exciting to see, like I say, not only drones, but just technology as a whole being used for good for the war fighter, for first responders, for the citizens.

[14:15] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, and I mean, it's all about continue to be open to trying some of these new technologies. And what I like about TAK is I know that the, at least the foundation of it is free to first responders. Of course, there are all the other, some of the plug-ins and the hardware device that you use that aren't free. But nonetheless, it's a good starting point. And if it was developed by the Air Force Research Lab, it's got something going for it.

[14:40] Gabe Graveline: That's right.

[14:40] Kevin Sofen: And yeah, I mean, one other thing you mentioned this kind of common operating picture and some of the software you use, I'd love to kind of find one of the final things is like consuming this data and experiencing this data. You talked about you're on the CRT team, but also, you know, granted we're here, you know, this is all kind of the use our kind of equipment, like sometimes you're just going out in the field, you know, you don't have much time and all of a sudden you need the information. Even if you kind of speak to kind of like how you're, how you're receiving and experiencing kind of consuming data while you're gone, like on the scene or arriving to a scene. And what would you say to maybe even other entrepreneurs or companies about how to think about creating data and displaying and integrating this data to make it more operation relevant to end users like yourself?

[15:29] Gabe Graveline: One thing I'd say is making sure that the users are able to be proficient in it. So obviously, whenever we get to a disaster, it's not the time to learn how to use something, whether it's a robot or software. And then knowing what the capabilities are without connectivity. You know, I'll just give you an example of about a week and a half ago, we had a tornado just northwest of Tulsa. And middle of the night, most of us are in dead sleep. A tornado has hit an F4, it's wiped outside a 40-mile track, and it's gone across one of the smaller suburbs, but it's wreaked havoc. So we're deployed. We're there within two hours on site, and that's not the time to try and get everything situated and ready and realize that the cell towers are out and there's no connectivity and stuff like that. So what's great is working with those software partners, having partners like Oklahoma State University, Tulsa Innovation Labs, stuff like that. have a backbone, somebody that we can reach out to and say, hey, we need help with this. Get me that information. Having a relay, you know, making mesh networks and stuff like that we can have a way to communicate, to get information through when it's needed. Obviously, in time of disaster, it's probably one of the biggest tests. So, you know, plan for the worst, I guess is what I would say to those who are in development is make sure that it's, you know, I don't want to say put an easy button on it for firefighters or, you know, first responders, but as easy as you can make it is simple because we are taking in, adjusting a lot of information and trying to get that out to others is not always as easy as one might think, you know, when you're in the middle of the city on, you know, writing the program, whatever.

[17:02] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. No, it makes sense. And then I know you've kind of alluded to some of this throughout our conversation so far, but, you know, it's May 2024, but what's on the horizon for you in the short term and also kind of, you know, what are you most excited about with what's happening here in Tulsa with all these, you know, moving exciting pieces that are happening?

[17:20] Gabe Graveline: Well, for me, I'm excited that hopefully maybe some funding comes available where I can make robotics my primary job requirement. I do enjoy the crisis response, but it's been hard doing two full-time jobs with only seven days in the week, you know, if we had a couple extra days in the week or something like that, it might be helpful. But also, I am excited to see what our partners, domestically, you know, anywhere across the nation and or specifically here in Oklahoma, you know, or in this region can come up with. I mean, I know that, you know, we're going to have a new place for testing, it's called Windshape that will be opening up at the Skyway drone port here in Tulsa, and they will be doing certification testing. You know, for manned aircraft, we know what to expect, what that flight envelope is. For unmanned systems, not so much. kind of been a guessing game and a trial and error, it would be good to know that these are the parameters that you need to live by. So you can, you know, take care of your equipment, make it last longer. I know technology changes constantly, at least like that. But this would be a good start to being able to expand on that, making it, I guess, more, I don't know, more usable in the future or expandable.

[18:29] Kevin Sofen: Operationally relevant.

[18:29] Gabe Graveline: Yeah, I lost my word.

[18:31] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, some buzzword of sorts. But I guess actually final thing that just kind of came back to me is the, where we may have crossed paths somewhere in the past, but I know for sure we definitely connected at the Texas Robotics Summit to a plug for them right now. Why, what is that event in your words? You know, why is it a valuable event? Why should people put that event on their calendar for 2025?

[18:52] Gabe Graveline: So I've had friends trying to get me to go for a couple of years now. And this is the first year where it actually worked out where I could go and actually got to instruct some and completely different than any other conference or event. Hands-on, putting the equipment through tests, getting able to do it is completely different than seeing it sitting on a shelf, at some of the other robotics conferences and stuff like that. It was fantastic. You had first responders who were actually using the equipment. I learned as much from them as they probably learned from me. So it's fantastic. I highly recommend it to anybody that can make it down there, And I'm hoping that, you know, that continues to expand, that maybe there's more days and more hands-on.

[19:36] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, to me, it's the most productive, efficient, really meaningful, impactful, all those adjective event I've ever been to. I mean, there was, of course, all these shows are good in some capacity, but there's some of that by PowerPoint that's very real. But there, it is a little bit of PowerPoint, a little bit of talking, but then it's like, hey.

[19:57] Gabe Graveline: Let's go play.

[19:58] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, let's go do it in the field. And just it's truly the Rebel Peak Ranch and the Grand Defense team, I mean, they just do an awesome job. So I'm already looking forward to next year and just continuing to learn and apply. I think that's one of my big takeaways from that and frankly, even just being here in Tulsa with you of just kind of, you know, talking about it, but then also just doing it and then kind of seeing, I know you've got some meetings later today to continue to take it to the next level. So kudos to you, man, and just on behalf of Smart Firefighting and just the whole industry, thanks for where you lead in and being the tip of the spear for some of this really awesome, exciting stuff.

[20:37] Gabe Graveline: Well, I appreciate it, man. We really enjoy having you here on behalf of Tulsa Fire Department. Seriously, you're welcome any time, and we really thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

[20:45] Kevin Sofen: Of course, man. Until next time.

[20:47] Gabe Graveline: All right, dude. See you. Bye.

[20:50] Kevin Sofen: Thanks for listening to today's episode. What did you think? What'd you learn? something, right? Please reach out on social media with your thoughts on this episode and any other suggestions for future content. We look forward to capturing more important stories across public safety and are here at your service.