Episode 222: TAK: Colorado’s Blueprint for Public Safety with Bob Gann

Episode notes

Why should TAK become a default tool for public safety operations?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

Welcome back to this 20-episode Texas Robotics Summit Mini Series! This 4 day event (March 4-7, 2024) was hosted at the Reveille Peak Ranch and by our friends at Granite Defense , and showcased the use of robotics (air/water/ground) in public safety via keynote presentations, training scenario stations, roundtable conversations, and more.

In this episode:

The role of TAK in Colorado's public safety operations

Enhancing situational awareness and decision-making

The widespread adoption and future of TAK in public safety

Get the inside scoop from Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann - the Deputy Director of the Center of Excellence for Advanced Technology Aerial Firefighting.

Bob talks about the implementation and benefits of the Team Awareness Kit (TAK) in Colorado. TAK is a tool that allows for sharing situational awareness in public safety. The Colorado TAK ecosystem provides a platform for agencies to manage their own people and information, improving efficiency and decision-making.

The implementation of TAK in Colorado has been successful, with over 100 agencies and 1,200-1,500 responders currently using the system. The future of TAK looks promising, with the goal of making it a default tool for public safety operations.

So click play now to hear what he has to share! And stay tuned for the next Mini Series episode!

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Kevin's intro: the Texas Robotics Summit mini-series
2. 0:45 Dr. Bob Gann joins
3. 1:09 Why Bob came to the Texas Robotics Summit
4. 1:44 What TAK is
5. 2:28 A map with thoughts: the Marauder's Map
6. 3:05 The Center of Excellence and the Colorado TAK ecosystem
7. 5:36 How smaller departments can sign up
8. 6:55 A simple example of better situational awareness
9. 9:04 Less radio traffic, more of what matters
10. 10:12 Wildfire TAK and the federal picture
11. 12:30 Too good to be true? Awareness and adoption
12. 15:28 From the mundane to the exciting: real-world uses
13. 18:26 Drones, data and saving time
14. 19:11 What's ahead for the rest of 2024
15. 20:17 The vision for TAK as a default tool
16. 20:59 Parting thought
17. 22:09 Getting the word out and closing thanks

Questions answered in this episode

What is TAK and how does it help firefighters?

Bob Gann describes TAK as a tool that shares situational awareness in public safety, essentially a map that shows where you are and what is happening around you on a standard phone. He says it reduces radio traffic because responders can see each other's locations and incident information without needing to ask over the radio.

Hear it at 1:47

How do Colorado fire departments sign up for COTAK?

Bob Gann says departments go to a webpage called cotak.gov, sign up, and their agency is already listed. The state creates an account for them, and then their responders can create individual accounts. The department administers its own people. It is free government software, and the state provides training, videos, and on-site help.

Hear it at 5:48

What is WF-TAK and who is it for?

WF-TAK stands for Wildfire TAK, which Bob Gann says is a federal system for the five big land agencies: U.S. Forest Service, BIA, BLM, National Park Service, and Fish and Game. It is being implemented so federal firefighters can use TAK on incidents, with incident maps and crew locations populated automatically from geospatial systems.

Hear it at 10:28

How did TAK help reduce the size of a burnout on a fire in California?

Bob Gann says the overhead team had information showing they could go direct on a fire, but Type 1 teams were unsure. Once the maps were shared on TAK, the Type 1 teams could see the fire location and agreed to go direct instead of burning out approximately 5,000 acres.

Hear it at 18:26

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 222 transcript

TAK: Colorado’s Blueprint for Public Safety with Bob Gann

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a 20-episode mini-series at the Texas Robotics Summit hosted by our friends at Granite Defense. We dive into the evolving world of drones and robotics in public safety aviation. Through 20 fantastic conversations with leaders across public safety, from the fire service, law enforcement, EMS operations, wildlife management, and more, we explore the challenges, investments in the critical role of technology in enhancing emergency services operations. A special thanks to the sponsor of the Smart Firefighting Podcast, W.S. Darling Company, for making this podcast possible. Enjoy the show. Podcast two of day three here at the ranch. We now have a tent over us, which is just absolutely wonderful. I'm sitting alongside the deputy director of the Center of Excellence for Advanced Technology Aerial Firefighting, Dr. Robert G. Gann. Yeah. Bob, how you doing?

[1:04] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: I'm doing great, and it's wonderful to be here. I'm having a great time at this conference. It's just been wonderful. What first time I've been here?

[1:09] Kevin Sofen: What brings you to Burnet, Texas?

[1:11] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Well, I wanted to come see what Texas robotics was all about. We do use UAVs, and I'm a pilot there, so I actually have that background, too. But we wanted to talk about TAK and about what Colorado's doing with TAK. Texas is using TAK, so TAK's a word that people maybe haven't heard, but let's talk about it.

[1:27] Kevin Sofen: It's starting to become a little more prevalent, start trending. You've seen some of the different public safety sectors. You're starting to hear TACTIS, TACTAT. And even as I've got more into it, I hear there's iTAK, there's WinTAK, there's COTAK, there's WF-TAK, there's TACTIS, TACTAT. But even from the foundational T-A-K, TAK, in your words, what is TAK?

[1:47] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: TAK is a tool that allows us to share situational awareness and public safety. So basically it's where you are, what's going on around you, on your phone that's just sitting in your pocket. It's standard phone, iPhone, Android phone, for dispatch centers, windows, machines, things like that. It just shares that situational awareness right there. In simple terms, it's a map with dots. That really understates what it'll do. As I think we were talking before here, I was a fire chief for 22 years, a volunteer firefighter. And I would have given anything to have the kind of information I have during responses intact today. It's just so much, it's a game changer. It's a lifesaver. It's literally lifesaving.

[2:28] Kevin Sofen: When you said a map with thoughts, the first thing that came to mind, have you watched or read any of the Harry Potter books?

[2:34] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Actually, I haven't. That's one I've not done.

[2:36] Kevin Sofen: Well, in Harry Potter, there was this thing called the Marauder's Map. And it's literally a map that sort of shows Harry and shows in the way it's a map with thoughts. There might be a little analogy of playing words there, maybe like a Reddit trend there.

[2:48] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, it's interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way.

[2:50] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, no, it's kind of like magic, but happening real time. It is. Well, and so to kind of expand upon that, I'd love to know more about how, within the Colorado context, what's happening within the Colorado TAK ecosystem.

[3:05] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, so the Center of Excellence, as the title kind of gives us, is tasked with looking at advanced technology. It says for aerial or firefighting, our mandate actually allows us to go beyond that. So we all, we support all public safety, law enforcement, search and rescue, you know, wildland fire, structured fire, all of those aspects. but we're looking at what we can do to make firefighting safer, more efficient, more effective. And TAK came on our radar a few years ago. It is developed by the DOD. It's called Team Awareness Kit. And we started working with it about 2016. We were actually the first organization out of the federal government that got a license to play with it. And so we did, we literally played with it for a while. We tested it and we did things. And in 2022, we had really gotten to the point where we said, this is developed to the point where for public safety, it's ready. It's time to do it. And in the meantime, the DOD had decided to release it to public safety. So they have a version called CivTAK. That's actually what we're running, civilian TAK. It's, you know, you can download it in Google Play Store, you know, iPhone, things like that. But we decided it was time to do that. And we approached the Colorado legislature. There was a bill passed that funded us to initiate TAK for all firefighters or all public safety agencies in the state of Colorado. And that's COTAK, stands for Colorado TAK, Colorado Team Awareness Kit. way Colorado works is we're a local control agency, so urban state. So fire departments, police departments, they are the owners for the responding in the area, and the state comes in and we help them do their job. And so that's what the COE recognized is we need somebody at the top level to set up the server, the infrastructure, the user management, the agency management, all that kind of stuff, and put that infrastructure in place. And then the agencies, the cooperators can sign up because it's government software, it's free, doesn't cost them anything. They put it on their standard phones, either ones they issue or everybody has a smartphone these days. And they integrate through the infrastructure we built. They can log in, they can create their account, they can manage their users, manage their information. We have what we call channels, kind of like radio channels intact. So a fire department can have their own channels. They can build them and they see only their people and their resource unless they want to. And they can share it broader for bigger events where we have mutual aid, where we need to share things, they can turn on those channels. But what the state is doing is that infrastructure, that overall thing, which would be beyond the resources of most local departments. They just couldn't do it's too much work. So we're doing that. And that's actually a model that the FPC, the Division of Fire Prevention and Control does.

[5:36] Kevin Sofen: So you mentioned that it's kind of, it would be too much for a smaller, medium department. So can smaller, medium departments within the state of Colorado sort of jump on this and piggyback on it, and how do they go about that?

[5:48] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, absolutely, there's a webpage called cotak.gov. They go to that webpage, they say, sign up. Their fire department or police department will be listed there already, because we already know who they are. And they just say, I want to start, and we create an account for them. At that point, their responders can go in and create accounts. They administer their people, so we don't try to administer the policeman or the fireman that's in an agency. They do it, they know who their people are, not us. But they are fully capable of administering their agency. They've got the full capability of TAK. It's all done. It's as simple as signing up on a webpage. And then we also provide training, videos, guidance. We have people who go out and actually help departments set up if they have questions and they need some help. We provide that support, that's our job. And our mandate from the state was to have it running by the end of fiscal year 2024, which in Colorado was June 30th. So we're coming up on that. We're actually way ahead of the game. We've actually implemented it's running. We have over a hundred agencies have signed up, maybe 1,200, 1,500 responders that are using it today. Some actively, some are just learning, but that's where we're at.

[6:55] Kevin Sofen: And just, I want to try and break it down more into layman's terms for a, it could be a first responder at anywhere in the country, but particularly in Colorado. What kind of value do they get of, like we talked about the information and data that's created and ultimately the TAK experience, Like, what would be an example of how a small, medium, or even large department in Colorado creates an account, gets going, and like, how are they using it on a day-to-day, week-to-day, week-to-week basis that's helping them create better situational awareness?

[7:27] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Sure, I'll give you a simple example. My department, which, you know, I was chief at, is one of the tech users. They get paged to go on a call, they turn their phone, and now they see each other, they see a map. Basically, it's a moving map, shows where their people are. If there's maybe a medevac helicopter coming in, they see that on there. If it's a wildfire that got reported by somebody, we will pull that information from a source called Irwin and we'll drop a point on the map. And so they'll see that wildfire they're going to. If the state's multi-mission aircraft has drawn a boundary around the fire, they'll see that on the map. All this stuff is on the phone in their hand as they're responding. They don't have to call on the radio and say, where are you, how far away are you? They don't have to ask dispatch, how far away is the medevac helicopter? They don't have to say, where's that seat? it's all right there on their hands. So one of the big things is not only do they know what's going on, the amount of radio traffic that goes on has decreased dramatically, which means important radio traffic is what you have. It's not the, oh, how far away are you? See that big rock? I'm walking by that big rock. You don't have to do that. One of the stories I like to tell is, you know, I was on a little wildfire in my apartment and I was walking the fire line and the fire had flopped over the line. So I needed to call one of my crews to come over and reinforce it. So I got on the radio and I said, hey Larry, I need you to come over here with your crew and reinforce this line. He goes, okay, where are you at? And I go, well you walk around past the truck and up by that big rock and see the tree, come up the tree. I spent three minutes telling him how to get there. With TAK, I would drop a point or he would just look at it, see where it is. And I say, see where I'm at? He go, yeah, okay, we're done. Conversation's done. They know where to go, they know what to do.

[9:04] Kevin Sofen: I liked how you said it's decreasing all that unnecessary radio traffic of simple stuff of where are you, what are you looking at? Hey, asking simple questions where 75% of those can be used kind of their basic who, what, when, where, why on a map with thoughts to allow you to then just focus only on the stuff that actually matters over the radio.

[9:25] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: That's right. And it opens that radio up for the information that really is critical. Maybe there's an emergency, maybe there's a firefighter that hurt themselves or something critical's gone, that radio is free for them. But then it augments that because not only is the radio, they say, you know, we're trapped here. We're gonna have to deploy shelters. And instead of saying, where are you? Look at the map on your phone and you know where they are. And so if you need to send a helicopter or a seat or a tanker to go support them in that deployment, it's not like, okay, they're on the south side of a 10,000 acre fire. It's there, we fly to them. right now, so it's not only convenient, it's lifesaving. And I feel that real strongly as a firefighter, as a guy who had to deal with telling hundreds of people their house is burned up, this is a big deal.

[10:12] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, I appreciate the context from Colorado as a whole and then a good micro example there. Talk to me on the more of a macro perspective on the federal level. What's going on at the federal level with TAK and how does it apply to each state, but even the macro umbrella of the federal government?

[10:28] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, you mentioned that at the beginning called WF-TAK, and it's actually WF-TAK for Wildfire TAK. That's what the government, the federal government has called it. There was a bill passed a few years ago called the Dingle Act, which directed the Forest Service to track firefighters on large incidents. And they've been looking at how to do that, and we've been working with them and demoing TAK on some incidents with them. And last year they came to us and said, okay, we want you to take what you're doing for Colorado, because you're already doing it, and just kind of clone it for the wildland fire. So we are actually in the process of doing that. Right now, we are taking all the five big land agencies, you know, U.S. Forest Service, BIA, BLM, Parks and, you know, National Park Service, Fish and Game. Those are the agencies that provide federal firefighters. We are implementing it so those firefighters will be able to do the same thing on an incident as we do in Colorado. There'll be a website where they can manage our resources. We'll actually talk to Irwin if an engine or a crew gets ordered to a fire, we can add them to a channel that was automatically created for that fire. So when they show up, they have TAK, they already have the incident maps, they have the information, they know where people are, they know where check-in is, they know where all that stuff, it's all on the phone automatically. And it just makes it so much simpler for them. I mean, if you've ever been on a big fire, wildfire, and maybe you have it, I have, you go with a check-in and you get maps and you try to figure out where everything is, all that stuff is just there. And it happens automatically. With the federal system, because it's so large, and unlike Colorado, it's centrally managed, we pull all that data from geospatial systems and then we populate it automatically. If you're a, maybe you're a crew coming from out of area, there will be a QR code at check-in and you scan the QR code, it'll add you to the incident. And the incident managers can then add specific channels. Maybe there'll be an aerial channel. There'll be a channel for each division. They can do it as they want. Again, without our help, without anybody doing anything crazy, it's all managed on a website, it's easy to do.

[12:30] Kevin Sofen: I've seen some example use case videos, and I've seen, and I've heard and talked with end users about how they are using TAK today to do exactly what you're talking about. My question is like, this almost seems too good to be true, and why isn't it being adopted and being used each and every day on every state? And like, is there, you know, is there a roadblock or ultimately like what do we need to do to continue to make this kind of commonplace within public safety operations?

[12:54] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Well, one thing is awareness. And that's a really good question, because I can back up a little bit. So when we looked at TAK as the state of Colorado, one of the things we saw that's missing was the ability to manage the people in TAK and the agencies in TAK is a great tool, and the military uses it in a particular way, but they basically send a team in and they set up a server for some kind of event, and then when they're done, it goes away. And they have a team dedicated to manage that thing. In our case, we needed to have 800, 900 agencies manage their own people, their own information, their own channels. And so we had to build that. It did not exist. And a lot of the work I've done personally over the last year and a half or so has been writing the code, the system. We call it a webpage. It's really an application that does that allows the fire department to, you know, a member to go, I wanna join my fire department. And we built the infrastructure so that somebody in a fire department says, sign up, that sends an email to the administrator And that fire department says, oh, yeah, I know that guy. He's one of my engine crew, and authorizes him. Or that's some kid that's playing on a website, don't want him. We had to build that infrastructure. And that infrastructure is critical, and it doesn't exist from tech out of the box. You have to have somebody either build that system and manage it, or you have to do it yourself. So I'm pretty excited that we've started to see some ways to do that, sharing with the way we're doing it for WF-TAK or COTAK. Texas is doing a little differently, but I think that's one of the hang ups has been is how do you manage that system? And so as we see states and regions and agencies start to adopt this and we start to get some best practices on how to do this, I think we'll be able to see a move forward. And one of our key phrases is tech is the future. We just think that's the way to go. There's one other piece, which is a lot of agencies, a lot of places have computer aided specialists. They have CAD systems. You know, fire department or a police department in Colorado that we're working with, they have a CAD system. They get a 911 call. They know where that person is. We actually had a developer who works with them to take the data from their system and populate TAK. So when their engine pulls up TAK, that data that came ultimately from their 911 system is now on a map in TAK. They don't have to call dispatch and say, what was the address again? They have a dot on a moving map, they drive to it. And we do it the other way. We take data from TAK and we push it to other geospatial systems. So it's an open system, that's one of the neat things about TAK, it's open source, it's open system, we can add that data in. It's all about getting the right information to the right people at the right time.

[15:28] Kevin Sofen: Man, drop the mic there. That was well said. Well said, Bob. And one thing that you mentioned a few times, it was just kind of like this idea of location services, not tracking, but location services. I want to expand upon that of location services of vehicle assets, of drones, of people, like these different things on the map that are creating ultimately a map of thoughts. What are the different dynamics and sort of the different type of data that goes into the map, or whether it's historical geospatial data, and then sort of the different sort of moving objects from trucks, drones, people? Tell me about sort of how you populate it and how that works from historical and real-time dynamic.

[16:10] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, so it can go from the mundane to the exciting. You know, I'm running COTAK. What I'm driving from Denver to Rifle, which is where I'm at, I'm driving through the mountains of Colorado in the winter. There's snow, there's bad weather, there's car accidents. I have all that information in TAK because we're pulling it from CDOT. So I know where the snowplows are, I know where the chain laws are, I know where the car accidents are on my map, on TAK. I no longer look at other things, I look at that. You know, that information is available to the public on a Colorado webpage, but for me, it's integrated in my tax system. So that's pretty basic. I can look at the camera on the top of Vail Pass and see how much snow there is, right intact. I just tap on the camera and I get the video. So that's pretty mundane, but it's actually really important if I'm planning a trip to Denver through the snow to know what's going on. If I have somebody like Jeff, who's one of the guys here with me, He was coming from Denver to rifle on Sunday to meet me for the airplane, big snowstorm. I'm watching on TAK, he shared his location. I'm watching on TAK, every once in a while I look, see, okay, he made it over Eisenhower's. Okay, he made it over Vail. The question was, is he gonna be able to make it to rifle in time for us to get our flight? So he was sharing his information. I was able to just, without calling him up and texting him, I was able to glance at TAK and know, okay, he's gonna make it, no problem. Then you get to the exciting things. Drones, for instance, aircraft, our multi-mission aircraft, video, live video from a fire from an incident showing up on the phone in the responder's hands. So, you know, imagine a fire crew on the edge of a wildfire and there's something approaching them and a drone sees it. There's a fire coming at them. They can actually see that video if they want to and see what's going on the drone. It helps them make decisions. Do we need to stay here? Do we need to move away? We have a case where we used an early deployment in California where there was a discussion about burning out a big area. And the overhead team, because they had the information, was saying, well, no, we can go direct. We don't need to burn this big area out. We can go direct. Well, the Type 1 teams were not so sure because they didn't have the information. Put the maps on tack, they looked at it, said, oh yeah, we see where it is, we can do that. And instead of burning out like 5,000 acres, they went direct. And real case, you know, made a big difference on how that fire was.

[18:26] Kevin Sofen: Well, one thing they were talking about a lot with drones here and has come up a few times is the idea of how the data that unmanned different types of robotic systems help save time. And I think of what you were just saying, I'd love to kind of get your thoughts on the idea of helping, the idea of saving time, but making time more efficient by leveraging the tool like TAK.

[18:46] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yes. Yeah, it's just, it really is. It's just, you know what's going on, so you know what to do. I mean, it really is, it just clarifies the situation in a way that allows you to make the decisions it makes sense. Instead of guessing or trying to look through the smoke or try to look around that corner where the bad guy is, you can actually have information that says, okay, this is what we need to do. It takes a lot of the debate away. It takes a lot of the time away.

[19:11] Kevin Sofen: That's cool. So it's March 2024. What's the rest of the year, calendar year look like for everything at the Colorado Center of Excellence and any sort of like programs, projects or events that you're going to or other people should be aware of?

[19:24] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Well, you know, the COE does a lot of things. You know, Jeff, my cohort that's here with me is our uncrewed systems manager. So he's looking at uncrewed both aerial and ground-based systems. So we're doing the research other than that. I would have to say, honestly, though, with the direction from the legislature to do COTAK, a lot of the COE team is focused on that's probably our biggest effort. That and WF-TAK for the next year, it's going to be a big job. We're doing what we can to look at other technologies, but this is an important thing. We believe in it and we're directed to do it. So a lot of this year is going to be about that. So you're going to hear a lot more about COTAK, WF-TAK, any kind of TAK thing. We're going to talk to people. I was talking to folks from DroneSense a little while ago. We'll figure out how to integrate their video feed into TAK. Like I said, it's not about you have to use TAK. It's about if you want to, it makes a sense if you have another system, let's work together. Let's make sure those things talk.

[20:17] Kevin Sofen: What's your vision for COTAK with TAK and just the whole TAK ecosystem in the next five, 10 years?

[20:23] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: I think it'll become a default. I mean, we have a search and rescue group in Colorado. Mesa County Search and Rescue is one of our early adopters. They are to the point where they don't even talk about, well, turn on tack. They assume it's on. That's part of their response. They go, okay, you see me, I'm here. They're assuming everybody else has got tack and it's running. It's just there. They don't have to communicate it. They don't have to say, I, at the top of the cliff, trying to rescue this guy, here's where I'm at. That's just there. And I think that would be the vision I'd have, is it's just there. It's like the radio in your truck. It's on, it's running, it's part of the system. and it's just going to make it so much more efficient.

[20:59] Kevin Sofen: Well said. And I did preface this a little bit with my podcast just before with Coit. What you just said was a pretty good sort of closing, but I'm going to ask you in sort of a, it doesn't have to be necessarily TAK related, but if it is, it's awesome. But any sort of final thoughts you could leave us with here today, whether it's a quote, a question, a comment, like challenge that you could leave us with here today.

[21:18] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Yeah, so I kind of have two words and you heard me a little bit, you know, a while ago, you know, TAK is the future for me. That's probably the biggest thing in terms of what I'm doing here today. Maybe on a broader sense, what I see here, quite use the word team, I agree with that 100%, I almost go a little farther, this is family. This is our family. This is the people we work with every day. This is the people we committed with you every day. And so, part of the family, it's just so exciting for me to be able to do that after a long career of engineering and firefighting, to be able to spend my time doing things for this family.

[21:52] Kevin Sofen: Man, that's awesome. I couldn't agree more. Team, family, and just, you see it here with the energy and even some of the guys are sitting around here and walking by. It's a, this is why I get out of bed every morning and it's really, it's an honor, the pleasure to collaborate and work alongside guys like you, Bob. So just thank you for what you're doing and keep it up.

[22:09] Dr. Robert (Bob) Gann: Well, and thanks for this because one of the things we really need to do is we need to get the word out about TAK, about these tools. And so you're doing that. I can't do that for my little office and rifle. We need people like you.

[22:20] Kevin Sofen: Hey, we're all a piece of the puzzle and I'm excited to continue to collaborate and cast a spotlight on the work you're doing and finding ways to continue to make TAK as the way, TAK as the future. Right on. Thanks, Bob. Thanks for tuning into this miniseries created at the Texas Robotics Summit, hosted by Granite Defense. Make sure to put this amazing event on your calendar for 2025. For this podcast episode, what'd you like? What'd you think? Drop us a comment on social media and let us know your favorite quote. Thanks for all that you do and have a great day ahead.