Episode 219: From Games to Lifesaving Simulations: The Zephyr Training Story with Kyle Bishop

Episode notes

What is the Zephyr Drone Simulator?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

Welcome back to this 20-episode Texas Robotics Summit Mini Series! This 4 day event (March 4-7, 2024) was hosted at the Reveille Peak Ranch and by our friends at Granite Defense , and showcased the use of robotics (air/water/ground) in public safety via keynote presentations, training scenario stations, roundtable conversations, and more.

In this episode:

Zephyr's impact on drone training at Texas Robotics Summit

Bridging game design and public safety through simulation

The future of drone training and industry challenges

Hear from Kyle Bishop - the CEO of Little Arms Studios .

Kyle talks about the importance of the Texas Robotics Summit and the focus on learning and engagement in the technology space. He explains that Zephyr is a professional training simulation software for drones, similar to Microsoft Flight Simulator. The origin story of Zephyr involves Kyle and the other founders’ background in computer game design and their transition to the public safety and drone industries.

Kyle also highlights the challenges and opportunities in drone training, including the need for regulations to keep up with the fast-paced industry. He also discusses Zephyr's user experience and pricing and the software's future development plans. And lastly, Kyle challenges listeners to consider the changing training landscape for rapidly evolving technologies.

So click play now to hear what he has to share! And stay tuned for the next Mini Series episode!

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

1. 0:00 Kevin's intro: the Texas Robotics Summit mini-series
2. 0:45 Kyle Bishop of Zephyr joins
3. 0:56 Why the Texas Robotics Summit is a favorite
4. 1:41 What Zephyr drone simulator is
5. 2:44 The origin story: from computer game design to public safety
6. 4:17 Where simulation fits in the training continuum
7. 6:30 Certification and the APSA test in the software
8. 7:26 User experience and pricing
9. 8:55 Keeping up with a fast-moving industry
10. 10:13 Better operators through better training
11. 10:46 Parting thought: how do you train for technology that moves so fast
12. 11:54 Closing thanks

Questions answered in this episode

What is Zephyr Drone Simulator?

Kyle Bishop describes it as professional training simulation software for drones, similar to Microsoft Flight Simulator but designed for groups to train at scale. It includes a learning management system that tracks metrics like scores, crashes, and total flight time, allowing people to practice in a safe environment before handling expensive equipment.

Hear it at 1:55

How did the company start making drone simulators?

Kyle Bishop says he and his co-founders were studying computer game design and first created IVIS, an incident command simulator for firefighters. A couple of years later they saw an opportunity in the drone industry around 2014-2015, when there were no professional tools for learning drones at scale, only software meant for fun.

Hear it at 2:56

What certifications can users get through the software?

Kyle Bishop says they offer the APSA BPURP certification through the software, which is founded on the NIST OpenLane test. They are working with other organizations to create credentials that matter in the industry, helping users protect themselves legally and get jobs more easily.

Hear it at 6:40

What does the software cost and how does licensing work?

For public safety, it is about 225 dollars per license per year. Users can download and install it on different computers. If you train 10 people in three months, you can deactivate those 10 and add 10 new people at no cost, so some groups use it for rotating training or maintaining currency.

Hear it at 7:41

What new features is Zephyr working on?

Kyle Bishop says they are adding new drone models like the Skydio X10 and DJI M30, thermal imaging for night operations and search and rescue, updated weather physics with dynamic air flow and drafts, and beyond visual line of sight training. They are also partnering with companies like DroneSense and Skydio to build specific user interfaces.

Hear it at 8:57

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 219 transcript

From Games to Lifesaving Simulations: The Zephyr Training Story with Kyle Bishop

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Kyle Bishop

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a 20-episode mini-series at the Texas Robotics Summit, hosted by our friends at Granite Defense. We dive into the evolving world of drones and robotics in public safety aviation. Through 20 fantastic conversations with leaders across public safety, from the fire service, law enforcement, EMS operations, wildlife management, and more, we explore the challenges, and the critical role of technology in enhancing emergency services operations. A special thanks to the sponsor of the Smart Firefighting podcast, W.S. Darley & Company, for making this podcast possible. Enjoy the show. We are rolling here on day two of the summit. Sitting next to the CEO of Zephyr Drone Simulator, Kyle Bishop. Kyle, how you doing?

[0:53] Kyle Bishop: Doing pretty good. Thanks for having me.

[0:55] Kevin Sofen: Of course. How has the Texas Robotics Summit been treating you?

[0:58] Kyle Bishop: This is a really great event. It's one of our favorites to go to, and happy to be a part of it.

[1:04] Kevin Sofen: So in your words, and you kind of started a company and building something out of nothing, why is this event in particular? Why is this event important? And what do you like about attending this event?

[1:16] Kyle Bishop: So this one is just really great, because everybody's here to learn and engage and just be part of growing technology and making the space better for everyone. It's not about just sales. It's not about just, you know, getting in front of people. It's more about like building those connections and really getting involved and making sure that what, for us, for what we're doing actually helps and matters to the people who are going to be using it.

[1:40] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. Well, and so I had the fortune last night of seeing your product firsthand and saw it was like almost like a little bit of a competitive nature going on. But for those of us that don't have the pleasure of maybe knowing about it yet, what is Zephyr drone simulator?

[1:55] Kyle Bishop: So Zephyr is a professional training simulation software for drones. You can kind of think like Microsoft Flight Simulator And it's really a tool meant for groups to scale at training at scale. And so we've built a lot of things in there, like a learning management system. So when you're flying in the simulation, other people can go and see what your scores were, if you crashed the drone, your total flight time, a lot of different metrics to be able to help people perform faster and better, and also in some cases, just be able to get experience on a drone before handling a really expensive one or a $40,000 camera or anything like that. You can then practice in an environment that is safe and we can create those risks that you don't really want to create in the field to train on and everything. So yeah, it's a great way to build muscle memory and get experience.

[2:44] Kevin Sofen: So you could be doing 1,000 different things with your time. I could have created any other company. But why did you create a drone simulation company? Give me the original, the origin story, how it came to life.

[2:56] Kyle Bishop: We got started, myself and the other co-founders were actually studying computer game design and with the goals of making video games when we got out of college. I mean, we worked together on a bunch of different projects and decided that we really liked working together so we kept doing that and then we found an opportunity in the public safety space with incident command training. So our first product was actually IVIS, it's the Interactive Virtual Incident Simulator, which is kind of like call of duty for firefighters where you're going through an active fire incident with like multiple people and having to manage the fire and smoke physics and how the fire reacts to what you do and don't do. And that eventually led us to the drone industry a couple of years later where we had some opportunities there to just see what was on the market. You know, at the time there was really no tools out there for learning drones at scale or even like professionally. It was just kind of like for fun software. And so we saw an opportunity for us to take what we had learned in building the incident command simulation and all the data tracking and really making a better training environment for people who were doing drones. And that was back in like 2014, 2015. And so we've just been building it since and found that we love being in this industry because you know, again, when people are just wanting to have positive impact, they're wanting to use technology for beneficial things, not just to, you know, words.

[4:17] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, no, I'm picking up what you're putting down, and I think ultimately one thing that you were talking about that came to mind for me was I've worked with virtual reality training for firefighters on the range of different fronts with companies like Flame Systems, like River, and they do awesome stuff with creating different types of content, CGI-based content, you know, photorealistic content, you know, 360 content. And it's a really good way to create content for high-risk, low-frequency scenarios or low frequency, high risk type scenarios, whatever it may be. And then being able to train on that and get sets and reps. But there's definitely, there's been somewhat of a reluctance of training saying, hey, this is the way we've always done it. So we're not going to do it differently. Granted, I think drones are a little different because they've just come onto the scene in the past 10, 15 years, even more so in the past like five, eight years. But have you seen any pushback or how are you kind of communicating this type of simulation training within the whole continuum of training.

[5:16] Kyle Bishop: Yeah, and there's definitely a mix. I'm like some of the old guard kind of against technology or against not doing things with hands-on. So there's been a lot of balance with mitigating that. But most of the time, when you get people's hands on the software and they actually experience it and how realistic it is and how much you can learn from just practicing in there, it's easier to convince them than you would expect. But with it being so new, creating policies, and having the government keep up with how fast the industry is moving, it's a big challenge for them. And they have a small staff, so I definitely don't blame them for any of that. But regulations and stuff haven't kept up with how fast the industry is growing. So it's something that we're trying to help with through being able to certify through the software, being able to actually have meaningful training that they can take to the field. you know, with like manned aviation, they have simulated flight time that counts towards their real hours and what can count in their certifications and credentials and everything. So we're trying to help the same things happen with our simulation and making sure that people are able to get those experiences so that when things happen in the field or when they need to handle those things, they're able to do so.

[6:30] Kevin Sofen: You mentioned the word certify in kind of within the software. Is that something that they get a Zephyr certification or is it a certification based on a NIST or NFPA standard or what is that?

[6:40] Kyle Bishop: So right now, we offer the APSA BPURP through the software. So it's founded on the NIST OpenLane test as a foundation. And then it's built upon that. And it's a way for you to have a credential in public safety that matters from not just the software company, but people who actually are in the field. And we're trying to do that with other companies as well, so other organizations that can either create credentials or have credentials that mean something in the industry, so that when people are using our software, they're able to either get jobs easier or be able to protect themselves better if legal cases happen or things like that, where they can show that I've gone through training. I know what I'm doing. Either the software messed up or the drone crashed itself or somebody else did something like just giving them another barrier for protecting themselves.

[7:26] Kevin Sofen: And just to, because I was thinking about the watching some of the pilots fly the drone simulation last night, I'd love to know a little bit more about what does a user experience look like of the software, and what's it cost?

[7:41] Kyle Bishop: So we've tried to keep it really easy to use. We don't limit downloads or anything like that. So you can download and install it on different computers, at home, in an office, or station, or anything like that. And each user gets a license. So for public safety, you're looking at about $225 per license per year. If you're training people, and say you train 10 people in a three-month time, You can deactivate those 10 people, add 10 new people for no cost, and train that whole new group. So some groups use it for training currency, like getting on the stick time when you're in a place where weather or flight restrictions are challenging, just so you have more time on the sticks. And then some other groups use it as those precursors, like I mentioned earlier. But it really depends on how you want to use it for your program. But we're trying to be as flexible as we can be to help out, so.

[8:28] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. I mean, I saw last night that even hearing that pricing model, it seems pretty appealing in terms how it could be used by small, medium, large departments. And I think I made you to fly it myself. I don't, I'm not much of a propeller head myself formally, but I do love, I like being a visual observer. You know, I'm good at watching. Yeah, it's maybe the most important role. What's next in your product roadmap? I mean, are you know, kind of other aspects of the software, just kind of keeping up with all different drones, like what's next?

[8:57] Kyle Bishop: It's definitely a struggle to keep up with the industry, you mentioned earlier, it's moving crazy fast. And the time it takes to develop something is usually longer than the lifecycle in the drone industry, but we're working with the Air Force as well as a bunch of other groups, both in public safety and in the education space, to add new things to the simulation, including new drone models. Like, we're working on the Skydio X10, and we just added the DJI M30. We're adding a bunch of other models. In terms of the features and function of the software, We're adding things like thermal imaging so that you'll be able to do night operations or search and rescue, clearing houses and things like that. Updating the weather physics so that you'll be able to have more dynamic air flow with the drone depending on what environment you're in, like drafts off of buildings and challenges like that. And a bunch of other things too, like beyond visual line of sight's gonna be really important. Some handling the automation of flights and interacting with specific user interfaces from different companies. So we're trying to partner up with a lot of companies like DroneSense and Skydio, like I mentioned, to build. out interfaces that you'll need to get used to so that you'll have that muscle memory of a tap here on the screen to make something happen. So those are all things we're really excited about and trying to get into the software just to make a better training experience.

[10:13] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. I like that phrase you've said a few times now, better training experience. And obviously you can see from a lot of the departments that are here, they're live and breathe and proof that they're using your product and like it. So you've done a good job of creating a sticky product and I think that's a great message is to build something that people want to use. And it seems like you've done a good job of listening and taking feedback from your end users.

[10:34] Kyle Bishop: Yeah, we try to. And our motto is better operators through better training, so.

[10:39] Kevin Sofen: Write that down. I am writing it down. Well, so kind of the closes out here, I mean, I've been throwing this monkey wrench at everyone on the podcast without prepping them. But kind of any sort of parting thoughts you could leave us with here, whether it's one of your favorite quotes that you live by, or kind of a message you could leave us with, a question, a challenge. Doesn't necessarily have to be robotics related, but any sort of final thoughts or ideas that you might have for us here today.

[11:04] Kyle Bishop: Speak softly and carry a big stick. I'm just kidding. One of the big challenges we see and we're trying to solve is, how do you train for technologies that move so fast and is also becoming so autonomous? The training is going to completely change in terms of what people have to do and what they have to prepare for. So I guess I would challenge people to think about, you know, what are the new things we're going to have to worry about in the next 5, 10 years that companies like ours are going to have to account for to make sure that you guys are ready for it when that time comes. So we'd love to talk about those things if anybody wants to or has ideas.

[11:42] Kevin Sofen: Well said. Well, Kyle, you're doing a great job. It's been fun to learn about you and your company and your co-founders and the product. So all I can say is keep doing what you're doing. Good work. And I look forward to staying in touch.

[11:52] Kyle Bishop: Thank you. Thank you for your time, too.

[11:53] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, of course. Thanks for tuning into this miniseries created at the Texas Robotics Summit, hosted by Granite Defense. Make sure to put this amazing event on your calendar for 2025. For this podcast episode, what do you like? What do you think? Drop us a comment on social media and let us know your favorite quote. Thanks for all that you do. Have a great day ahead.