Smart Firefighting Podcast

Episode 211: RED Team’s Drone Usage to Elevate Safety for Austin Fire Department with Jason Burnside

Published

Guests: Jason Burnside

Topics: Drones & Robotics

Episode notes

How are aerial drones a cost-effective and accessible tool for public safety?

Hello Smart Firefighting Community!

Welcome to another episode of covering real world innovations via interviews with fire service and technology industry experts that empower YOU to develop your very own Smart Firefighting strategy!

Welcome to this 20-episode Texas Robotics Summit Mini Series! This 4 day event (March 4-7, 2024) was hosted at the Reveille Peak Ranch and by our friends at Granite Defense , and showcased the use of robotics (air/water/ground) in public safety via keynote presentations, training scenario stations, roundtable conversations, and more.

In this episode:

How aerial drones enhance Austin Fire Department's efficiency

Success stories from the Robotics Emergency Deployment Team drone use

Importance of training and standards in UAS programs

Hear from Jason Burnside - firefighter, Program Manager, and member of Austin Fire Department's Robotics Emergency Deployment (RED) Team.

Jason talks about the use of aerial drones in public safety, the value they bring to the fire department, and the success stories of their implementation. He also discusses the RED Team's mission to explore emerging technologies and integrate them into public safety.

Jason also emphasizes the importance of training and professionalism in using drones and highlights the work of the IAFF IAFC Robotics Working Group in developing standards for public safety UAS programs.

So click play now to find out what he has to share! And stay tuned for the next Mini Series episode!

Head to www.smartfirefighting.com to discover how SFF accelerates innovation for emergency responders, to find out when our next event is, or review our curated resources!

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Chapters

  1. 0:00 Kevin's intro: the Texas Robotics Summit mini-series
  2. 0:45 Jason Burnside of Austin Fire's RED Team joins
  3. 1:13 What's happening at the summit
  4. 1:45 What the Robotics Emergency Deployment Team does
  5. 2:47 Why aerial drones bring value to a fire department
  6. 4:07 Success stories from Austin
  7. 5:25 The RED Team's fleet and deployment
  8. 6:51 Sharing the drone feed with command
  9. 8:06 A force multiplier and the five-year plan
  10. 9:27 Training and stick time at the show
  11. 12:08 What excites him about public safety robotics
  12. 13:30 Events on the radar for the rest of the year
  13. 14:32 The IAFF IAFC Robotics Working Group and standards
  14. 16:17 Parting challenge: treat it like aviation
  15. 17:36 Closing

Questions answered in this episode

What is the RED team at Austin Fire Department?

Jason Burnside explains that the robotics emergency deployment team, RED, was created 10 years ago to explore emerging technologies and see how they could be integrated into public safety and the fire service. Their mission includes drones, aquatic drones, 3D mapping and modeling, and digital twins of structures.

Hear it at 1:51

How does Austin Fire use drones to improve firefighting effectiveness?

Jason Burnside describes using drones at a four alarm fire in South Austin to show command whether water streams from five or six aerial apparatus were hitting structures effectively. The live drone feed was shared with all aerial operators and drivers so they could see fire location and adjust tactics in real time.

Hear it at 4:26

What cameras and sensors are on Austin Fire's drones?

Jason Burnside says their operational drones have wide angle lenses for situational awareness, cameras with 200 times zoom that can see accurately over nine miles away, thermal capability for search and rescue at night, and a laser rangefinder good up to three quarters of a mile that provides precise lat long locations.

Hear it at 5:47

How does Austin Fire share drone video feeds with responders on the ground?

Jason Burnside says they use DroneSense software, which streams feeds from multiple drones and multiple agencies to anyone with the link. Command posts, emergency operations centers, and responders can stream feeds on tablets, phones or laptops anywhere in the world, whether at the scene or distant.

Hear it at 7:15

What is Jason Burnside's advice on training for drone pilots in public safety?

He says you cannot train enough because it is a perishable skill. You cannot just fly a drone for 30 minutes every six months and consider yourself proficient. Austin Fire requires 30 minutes minimum flight time every month and constant continuing education covering 15 disciplines within public safety drone operations.

Hear it at 9:48

Transcript

Machine transcript of the published audio. Names may be misspelled and some sections are missing.

Ep 211 transcript

RED Team’s Drone Usage to Elevate Safety for Austin Fire Department with Jason Burnside

Speakers: Kevin Sofen, Jason Burnside

Source: Whisper medium.en machine transcription of the published Podbean audio (no original transcript found in Drive), lightly cleaned. Speakers were separated by voice clustering and then checked and assigned by hand at every speaker change. Gaps where the model returned no usable text are marked [inaudible m:ss].

[0:00] Kevin Sofen: Welcome to a 20-episode mini-series at the Texas Robotics Summit, hosted by our friends at Granite Defense. We dive into the evolving world of drones and robotics in public safety aviation. Through 20 fantastic conversations with leaders across public safety, from the fire service, law enforcement, EMS operations, wildlife management, and more, we explore the challenges, investments in the critical role of technology in enhancing emergency services operations. A special thanks to the sponsor of the Smart Firefighting podcast, W.S. Darley & Company, for making this podcast possible. Enjoy the show. Officially podcast number six, sitting alongside the one and only Jason Burnside, the program manager of Austin Fire Department's robotics emergency deployment team, also known as the red team. How you doing, Jason?

[0:58] Jason Burnside: I'm good, how are you?

[0:59] Kevin Sofen: Man, you know, luckily I'm wearing my UPF shirt and I got a lot of SPF on because we're kind of right in the sun, but you know what, no place else I'd rather be than Bernadette, Texas at the ranch here.

[1:11] Jason Burnside: Man, it's awesome, it's good to be back.

[1:13] Kevin Sofen: So what went on yesterday, what's going on today? Tell us a little bit about what's going on with the show, Dynamics.

[1:18] Jason Burnside: So, man, this is one of the biggest events that we have, especially here in Texas, for public safety robotics. And it's an amazing opportunity to get together with partners from across the state, across the country, to discuss techniques and explore new technology that's emerging, get a chance to interact with vendors, and just get some actual practical flight experience and learn from a ton of really good instructors that are out here.

[1:45] Kevin Sofen: So earlier I said robotics emergency deployment team, the RED team. What's the RED team?

[1:51] Jason Burnside: So we were created 10 years ago, and kind of our mission set was to explore emerging technologies and see how those could be integrated into public safety and the fire service. Our mission set has been and continues to be finding those technologies, use of drones, aquatic drones, and even just technologies as far as doing 3D mapping and modeling and digital twins of structures, we're exploring all that kind of all that different technology.

[2:21] Kevin Sofen: So any land robots as well?

[2:24] Jason Burnside: We had some several years ago that were donated to us and we don't have any currently. We do have a couple of our pilots are pretty savvy in the kind of ground robotic section. They're into kind of like RC cars and things like that. And so they're exploring a homemade solution for sending ground robotics into a situation for hazmat identification and things along those lines.

[2:47] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, right on. And so obviously at the show there's land, there's air, there's sea, but it does seem the aerial robots and the quadcopters and the fixed wing is kind of the strongest interest and the strongest passion. And there's some of the kind of the early adopters within the robotics realm using that. In your terms, I mean, what is an aerial drone and how and why does it bring value to the fire department? Why is it just like your eyes, it's like another tool in the tool shed for first responders?

[3:15] Jason Burnside: You know, we are using quadcopters primarily. You know, it's something that is accessible, it's cost effective, and it gives us an eye in the sky. You know, all of our operational drones have thermal capability, and I feel like that's essential for any public safety entity. We're able to use these now to give us a 360 view of larger incidents, whereas before, All we have to go off of is just going to be radio traffic and just kind of describing what you see. And command now has a live video feed. And if they need to see something, you know, location of personnel for accountability, you know, taking a look at how an emergency incident is progressing and giving them real time data and information to give them the ability to, you know, execute proper tactics and mitigate a situation much more quickly and efficiently.

[4:07] Kevin Sofen: And within the context of how the RED team operates and how you're creating data to, that last word you said, more efficient, efficiently, I'd love to know what are some use cases or success stories of how Austin has effectively used drones to make first responders safer and to allow first responders to do their job more effectively?

[4:26] Jason Burnside: Yeah. You know, one of the things that we do when we are on scene is we're monitoring, you know, the effectiveness of our tactics when we're doing firefighting. Just the other day, we had a four alarm fire in South Austin that had two structures that were involved, heavily involved in fire. And we were using five or six aerial apparatus to do, you know, big flow water, basically kind of a surround and drown tactic. What we were doing was we were providing command, the ability to see the effectiveness of those streams, whether they were making it to that structure and being effective. That was a huge win for us because very quickly we would determine, you could see the aerial operators that did not have our drone feeds. And command was even calling it out over the radio there. And we were going around very quickly, making sure that everybody had a live drone feed, all the drivers on the apparatus, so that they were effectively being able to see, you know, where the fire was located. And we were much more effective with our tactics.

[5:25] Kevin Sofen: And talk to me through, again, it's not just a flying piece of plastic. there are these flying pieces of plastic, drones, carry different cameras, different sensors, and that is creating data, and then that data is transmitted and then visualized in different capacities. Talk to me through some of the payloads and then the data transmission and visualization.

[5:47] Jason Burnside: Sure, yeah, so we have currently, most of our aircraft that are operational are equipped with, we have kind of a range of cameras. We've got a wide angle lens that gives us really good situational awareness when we're transiting through the airspace, making that safer. And then we have cameras capable of 200 times zoom. We were able to accurately see something that was happening over nine miles away the other day. We have thermal capabilities. So when we are looking for example, like a search and rescue at night in a wooded area, it helps us much more quickly identify where those victims are and get rescuers to their location you know, in a timely fashion. As well as we have a laser rangefinder that's a good up to like three quarters of a mile. And that gives us a precise lat long locations. And so, I mean, this has been an invaluable tool. It's been a total game changer for how we do things. And I feel like it's given us a tool that allows us to be much more effective with how we, you know, deliver public safety to the citizens of Austin.

[6:51] Kevin Sofen: And tell me more about, you mentioned you were able to see like who isn't using the drone feed, but like from the drone creating information to then getting that data to different drone, to different first responders on the ground, whether it's in the truck, whether it's on foot, how are you leveraging different connectivity networks? How are you leveraging software to ultimately push that? And tell me about kind of like the user experience of that.

[7:15] Jason Burnside: Yeah, so right now we are using a software called DroneSense, which is a third-party software that allows us to stream our feeds from multiple different drones, multiple different agencies, we can interoperate and partner together, and we can stream those feeds anywhere in the world, anybody that has that link. And so our command post, both on scene, and if we have an emergency operations center that is distant from the event, everyone is able to stream that feed, whether it's on a tablet, a phone, laptop, anything like that, and streaming that real-time, actionable intelligence to all our partners on the ground. whether you are a firefighter on the ground using that to make sure that your host stream is hitting the appropriate target, all the way to command, using that information for a large special event, making sure that we have the appropriate resources going to the correct location in the shortest amount of time.

[8:06] Kevin Sofen: So it seems like the drone, the red team, has been a force multiplier and has been overall a win so far within the Austin Fire Department. What's, do you have, I don't know if you have a five, 10-year roadmap, or what's next for how you plan to continue to integrate robotics or even if there's other technologies too, what other kind of like technologies and plans do you have for the Austin FD?

[8:30] Jason Burnside: Yeah, so I would say the five-year plan for us is we, I want to change our deployment model. Currently it is a all-volunteer basis where we have people who are working on a fire truck full-time and they take on this additional skill and training and tactics and things like that. And so they have a special hat. And so that in our system, if we have a need for a drone pilot, they would go and respond as a resource. But ultimately my hope is that I would like us to transition to having a full-time crew that's all they do. They would be a kind of a squad model where you have a four-door F-350 driving around and we have the entire gamut of our capabilities, whether it be a small indoor FPV drone, your larger capable drones, ground robotics, aquatic equipment, everything would be within this unit and they would be highly specialized and focused on kind of breathing and sleeping this stuff.

[9:27] Kevin Sofen: That's awesome. And then just kind of thinking about here at the show, I mean, it all kind of comes back to training and kind of getting hands, getting some stick time, but I'd love to hear about kind of what's Austin, what are you doing here at the show in terms of how this ties into the Red Team mission? and I'd love to hear too about kind of your thoughts on training as a whole.

[9:48] Jason Burnside: Yeah, so we're using this as an opportunity to get pilots that have been on the team for a while as well as newer pilots an opportunity to engage with just regional partners, see how other people are using drones, learn about different techniques, developing those partnerships, as well as just giving them some practical stick time. This is a really unique and dynamic environment out here in Burnet where we can practice a multitude of different things as far as search and rescue. We have nighttime flying, all sorts of really interesting stuff in a safe but kind of demanding environment. It's a challenge to all skill levels, which is great. And as far as just kind of my vision on training, I really don't think that you could be training enough. It is a perishable skill. It's something that if you are not have a dedication to, this is not something that you can just throw a drone up for 30 minutes every six months and consider yourself proficient. This is something that is a demanding skill set that I tell our pilots that we have 15 disciplines within just within public safety UAS. And that's everything from, you know, thermography, proper search and rescue techniques, you know, firefighting, assisting with, you know, the law enforcement missions, you know, all those kinds of things. So there's a lot that they that we are constantly doing in the Austin Fire Department on a monthly basis for continuing education. We have 30 minutes required minimum flight time every month. And we are constantly trying to get our people out together because we have three different shifts. And so a lot of people don't know everybody that's on the team. So giving them these opportunities to get together, work together, as well as working with manned aviation and our other public safety partners that we work with all the time.

[11:33] Kevin Sofen: Totally agree with that sentiment on training. I love the phrase of no days off. And it truly is a perishable skill. And I mean, you can think you know everything, but just as much as the technology's changing, policies are changing, just the external environments and even different dynamics like lithium ion battery fires, new stuff is changing. So you gotta be trained all the time.

[11:52] Jason Burnside: Yeah, and being, kind of having your finger on the pulse of emerging technologies and, you know, the problems that other people are experiencing, it really is beneficial to have a full-time person engaged in this field so that they can be the SME for that agency.

[12:08] Kevin Sofen: Yeah. So I kind of asked you about your five, 10-year plan, but maybe rephrasing that question in a little different way of what excites you most about the current state of where we're at with robotics and technology and public safety, and where do you think some of the biggest rooms for even better improvement of integrating technology in the public safety lies?

[12:31] Jason Burnside: I think we're in a very exciting time, and it's just one of those things that I've been a part of this team for seven years now. I was assistant program manager for two, and program manager for two, and just in that timeframe, I mean, the way that technology has advanced, I can't wait to see where we are in three to five years. I think we are just moving at such an incredible pace. I think the opportunities we have is continuing to demonstrate to the public that we have a trust with, that we are sworn to protect, is making sure that they understand how we're using this technology, that we're using it for good, drones for good, and showing them that this is another tool that we're utilizing and taking advantage of the latest technology that's available to us to give them the best service possible. And a lot of that comes down to being transparent with what we're doing, being open to, you know, hold demonstrations in public and continue to show them that this is something that you can trust us with, just as you would anything else that we're utilizing.

[13:30] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, well said. And then, you know, kind of thinking just, you know, about we're here at the Texas Robotics show, it's March, you know, and kind of interested in kind of the rest of the year for you of kind of, is there anything on your radar, any other events or things that you're thinking about attending or things that you're going to?

[13:48] Jason Burnside: So next month I believe it's Texas DPS is hosting at their tactical training facility a NIST course for instructors, getting them spun up to be proctors for the NIST course. I'm a huge believer in NIST and I think every public safety UAS program should be using that as part of their training curriculum. We're also looking at in Houston, I want to say it's in June, is gonna be the AppsCon. So, Apsa is holding their AppsCon here in Houston. And so, we're gonna be trying to get some people out to that as well. And yeah, there's a couple other things. We just gotta see if we've got funding in the budget for it.

[14:24] Kevin Sofen: And maybe get you back to TSI this year.

[14:26] Jason Burnside: Yes, I would love to come back to TSI.

[14:28] Kevin Sofen: The day will be announced soon. I'm hoping it's in Texas, we'll see. Awesome. And I guess the final thing would be, this kind of a plug to Coitt and all the work that Coitt Kessler is doing, but the IAFC-IAFF working group. your words, what is it and then kind of what's the initiative that it's taken?

[14:42] Jason Burnside: Yeah, so the IAFF, IAFC Robotics Working Group is, it's a collection of people from around the country that have been part of public safety UAS organizations like the FDNY, we've got LA, we've got groups out of Miami-Dade here in Austin, literally all across the country, and we even have partners in Canada that are engaging in the discussion. But we're working to collaborate with one another to develop a common picture for public safety UAS, not only from the programs that are just getting started, giving them a roadmap, a very clear and easy roadmap for how to develop your program and the right steps to take to do that, as well as training suggestions, curriculum for those kinds of things. We're just trying to come up with a standardization that people can follow and rely on that is something that we hope to be adopted on a North American level at the very least. And what that will do for Public Safety UAS is we'll all be communicating using the same language. I know that if I get deployed to another part of Texas or another part of the country, that if we're all operating under that same standard, then I show up on scene and we're We're already talking the same language. You know, we're training just like we, you know, I'm integrating seamlessly in the same way we would if it was just, you know, a regional partner versus somebody that's across the country.

[16:06] Kevin Sofen: I mean, it seems similar to like the NIMS standard and then like a lot of the frameworks of how we were operating and a lot of lessons learned from 9-11, but really kind of just taking it and putting a contextual robotics drone spin on it.

[16:17] Jason Burnside: A hundred percent, yep.

[16:18] Kevin Sofen: Yeah, I love that. Exactly. And I guess final thing would be, if you could leave us with a mic drop of sorts of, This could be a favorite question, a question for the audience, a challenge for the audience, a favorite quote. You know, it doesn't even have to be necessarily drone or robotics related, but I'd love to hear what do we have from Jason.

[16:35] Jason Burnside: My challenge, so I'm also a private pilot, and I, in this role, try my best to try and integrate as much as I can from the manned aviation side of things. I mean, they've got, you know, countless decades of experience that they have implemented as far as how they train and requirements. And I would encourage every public safety UAS program, and even just your average pilot who's learning UAS, to hold themselves to the same standard that you would as a crewed aviation. We are pilots, in the eyes of the FAA, we are pilots flying aircraft in the national airspace. We're sharing that with crewed aviation, and I think we have a responsibility to treat that with reverence and to be as professional as we can when we are up there and doing what we're so lucky to do.

[17:27] Kevin Sofen: Well, it's like Jason. Well, it's a pleasure and honor to work alongside you and I look forward to further collaboration in the future.

[17:32] Jason Burnside: Yeah, it's a pleasure, thank you.

[17:33] Kevin Sofen: Of course. Thanks for tuning into this mini series created at the Texas Robotics Summit hosted by Granite Defense. Make sure to put this amazing event on your calendar for 2025. For this podcast episode, what'd you like? What'd you think? Drop us a comment on social media and let us know your favorite quote. Thanks for all that you do and have a great day ahead.